Antocularis

Victims Family

2006-07-10T16:59:00.000-07:00

People seem to be at a loss for words when trying to accurately describe what it is that Victims Family sounds like. That's just fine with Victims Family, since they hate categorizations anyway. The easiest pigeonhole for them would be to call it punk jazz funk hardcore, because their music fuses distinguishable elements of sound from each of those genres and then they make it into something all their own. Victims Family now has four albums out since they got their start in 1984, and have been touring throughout the U.S. and Europe in the last few years. Those tours have built up a strong base of fans outside of Northern California and given the band quite a bit of exposure abroad. Recently Antocularis had the opportunity to talk with Victims Family backstage before a show about what they've been up to, their new album and tour, and what they will be doing in the near future.

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Interview with Ralph Spight, Larry Boothroyd, and Tim Solyan.

AC- Tell me about the early years of Victims Family.
RS- Victims Family formed in October of '84, as Larry and I were searching for a drummer. We would get together making songs and finally settled on Devon as our drummer, and began rehearsing in my studio apartment which was nothing more than some sheetrock. It was a very tiny place in a very residential neighborhood-
LB- It's been since bulldozed over-
RS- But I Digress. Let's see.....just started playing as many shows as we could, getting songs together, throwing out bad songs, started playing a lot of shows in San Francisco, and then in 1986 we hooked up with Ruth Schwartz at Mordam Records and did our first album Voltage and Violets. We did a tour in 1985 with just a demo tape. We just put out the demo and sent it around to some clubs all over the country.
LB- Basically just to get out of town.
RS- Yeah, kind of a little vacation.

AC- Did you offer this demo tape for sale at shows or attempt to distribute it?
RS- No, we didn't even sell the demo.....I don't know how we survived that tour. We had no merchandise at all, we got paid hardly anything, but we managed to survive that tour. It was pretty amazing. In 1987 we went on a big, long, horrible tour of the United States- three months long and filled with all manner of hideous disasters.
LB- The worst things you could imagine.
RS- All of the most horrible tour stories combined.

AC- What exactly were some of the things that went wrong?
RS- Engines exploding, equipment being ripped off-
LB- After the first show, we had to put a whole new engine in the van.....that should have been a clue right there. RS- We should have turned around then.

AC- How far did you get?
LB- We got the van the day before we had to go on tour-
RS- This could be a whole interview-
LB- This is something that has never been printed, this whole story.
RS- Do we want to go into this?
LB- No, it doesn't glorify us in any way.

AC- Well, what were some of the positive things that resulted from your '87 tour?
RS- We stayed together.
LB- It was important for us to finally get through a tour and meet people.

AC- Have you toured the States for White Bread Blues yet?
RS- No, not yet. That's coming up. The next tour that we're booking now starts on March 28th.

AC- Would you tell us about the tours you've completed up 'till now?
RS- '85 was the demo tour.....five weeks in America, Des Moines, Iowa and back. Then the '87 fuckin' hell tour of America-
LB- Three months, all the way up to Boston. Lived in Michigan for a while-
RS- '88 Europe tour, six weeks, 35 shows.
TS- It wasn't that many.
RS- Yeah, we had more days off last time than we did this time, and then last March-May we did the States again. That was only five weeks.
TS- Then we came back and went to Canada. Did a week up to Canada, recorded for a week, did another four shows coming back.

AC- Wherever you're going you try to stop in and play a few shows?
TS- Well, on the way to record we did-
RS- Because we recorded the album in Canada. We did Eugene, Seattle, Portland, Victoria, and then we did Seattle and Portland again on the way back. Then we just went to Europe for two months, October-November '90.

AC- Do you have more of a following in Europe compared to the U.S., after the tours the band has done there?
RS- Yeah. The whole "alternative" scene seems to be much more organized over there, and basically in Europe the welfare system is a lot better so people don't need to work at shitty jobs. There's no work for them anyway.
LB- And most of the clubs don't rely on the bar. They're more like youth centers.
RS- There is a lot more cooperation, a lot more squatted gigs. It's just much easier for them to do things. People over there aren't so worried about the "money" thing all the time.

AC- The Europeans seem to be open to a lot more.....at least that's what many American bands have told me.
RS- There seems to be more energy going toward it over there. In the U.S. there isn't much energy going into the whole alternative scene. There is only a handful of record labels-
LB- Or the arts in general.
RS- Also, there isn't such an antagonistic view of alternative, punk, hardcore culture over there. Here, if you walk down the street with blue hair you get accosted and killed almost. In Europe people could care less. They can't be bothered with other people. It's just a cultural difference. I enjoy playing the States because to crack the whole culture of America is very satisfying.

AC- How about your following outside of California? Has it increased in the recent years?
RS- Yeah, now. After our last tour of the States I think we really..... we had twelve different stickers and we put them up everywhere!
TS- There were people at shows we did back East, and they would come up to me and say, 'dude, I saw you guys four years ago! You were bad!' I was like.....'wait, that wasn't me!' People still remembered that far back, and it had gotten bigger. A lot of people had the records, and knew the songs here and there.
RS- It had been growing.
LB- Especially after the '87 tour. It was discouraging. We got lazy on stage, and it was totally our fault.
RS- Well, there were a variety of reasons why we did the tour. Money is a problem, and then fuckin' like Devon quit. There was the whole drummer thing.

AC- Was that a major setback for the band?
RS- Definitely was. It was definitely a setback, because I felt when we recorded, "Things I Hate To Admit" we had jelled and had so much chemistry. It was a peak, and sad to see it explode in such a way.

AC- When you came back with "White Bread Blues," what was recording together like compared to the "Things I Hate To Admit" sessions?
LB- That was the best recording we've done. It's just been the whole experience of it.
RS- Well, we were able to spend more time with it. For one thing.....it wasn't leisurely by any means, but more leisurely than the first two sessions, so that helped.
LB- And the engineer, John, is way more familiar (obviously), from where we're coming from-
RS- The producer god.

AC- How did this relationship come about between a member of NoMeansNo (John) and Victims Family?
RS- We're lovers. Let's see.....we first met and saw NoMeansNo in '86 or '87- maybe '85. It was a long time ago.

AC- Were you playing a show with NoMeansNo when you met?
RS- Yeah, it was their first tour of the States, and we both just played a pizza parlor in Oakland..... we were completely blown away by those guys.
LB- There was maybe fifty people there to see the show, and we didn't know who NoMeansNo were.

AC- At the time was their tour for Sex Mad?
RS- This was before Sex Mad.
LB- It was for You Kill Me. We were like 'yeah, some band called NoMeansNo is playing- whatever!' So we play, get off stage, walk outside and come back to see them play. It was like @!#$*. Andy didn't even have his guitar, He was just bouncing around on stage and singing. I think they only played three songs. So, we've played with them over the years and got to know them a little bit better. We know that John and Craig and Cecil are really good at making records and doing live sound. John, as well as being a really natural musician is also just a whiz in the studio.
TS- It's like he was born with a silver 24 track in his mouth.

AC- So he basically engineered the whole album?
RS- He produced it, and did a lot of the engineering with Cecil English-
TS- And Craig.
RS- Craig lent his ears to the whole thing.

AC- Are NoMeansNo and Victims Family mutual fans of each other's work?
RS- Basically, yeah. It's culminating all in the fact that we're doing a bunch of shows with them coming up in March and April across the States.

AC- Do you see any further collaboration with No Means No in the future?
RS- I don't know. It's like if they're up for it we'd love to do something. We're going to do those live shows-
TS- And John is our producer now.
RS- John wants to produce our next album too.

AC- Have you guys talked about recording together on an album?
RS- No, there hasn't been talk of that-

AC- Would you do it?
RS- Sure!
TS- It's not out of the question.
RS- If everybody could find the time.

AC- Is time a problem for Victims Family when working on projects?
RS- There never seems to be enough to do the creative end of it, especially when you're involved in doing shows, and we do all our business ourselves too.

AC- You take care of your own management?
RS- Yeah. It's just us. There's no big management behind us.
LB- Plus we've been building a new studio which has been taking up all our spare time lately, and booking this tour, buying a van-
RS- It's been really crazy.

AC- Well, it must feel good to be in complete control over all aspects of the band.
RS- Definitely. The one thing that we don't control is running the record label. We stopped short of putting our own shit out. Running a label is like a 28 hour a day job. I couldn't do that and be in my own band and do my own management.....we couldn't do all that. We're very lucky.

AC- Is Victims Family happy with Mordam records?
RS- Yes.

AC- Are you going to stay with them?
RS- If they want to keep doing it. We're the only band on Mordam now.
TS- We don't have any plans to shop around for something bigger.

AC- Now that White Bread Blues is out, are you starting to think about what your next album will be like?
RS- Yeah, I'm thinking about that constantly. I've been trying to write, and I just haven't found the use yet.
TS- We haven't got any new songs because we haven't had time to write.
RS- I stayed in Europe for another month after the tour, traveling around with my girlfriend. These guys-
TS- Came home and drank beer for two months.
RS- We didn't have a place to rehearse, so we finally got the studio together. We've been soundproofing the studio for weeks now.

AC- How does the Victims Family song writing process work?
RS- There's usually an idea that someone has, and for the most part it's pretty much a range..... there isn't a whole lot of, 'I've got this riff, and I don't know what to do with it 'kinda thing.
LB- There used to be more of that though. In the beginning, we would just start making noise and at the same time make songs out of it.

AC- Does it take a long time for you to write a song and be satisfied with it?
RS- Well, you can write a song and it can sit for a long time because you think it's shit, but you try it with the band anyway. Sometimes I write songs in five minutes..... sometimes three months. Generally I tend to think that the five minute songs are a lot better than the three month songs- the inspiration of it all.

AC- Do you find yourselves tossing a lot of songs?
RS- Yeah.
LB- But we do recycle. We will take a piece from a song from three years ago and re-work it into a new song.

AC- People seem to have a hard time with trying to identify what it is that Victims Family sounds like-
RS- Good! We're glad to have our music defy description. That's all right with us. I am always at a loss for words when people ask 'what does your band sound like?' It's like..... read the book! There's a certain minimalism in the way that we do things. We try not to overplay things. I know that may be hard for a lot of people to believe, but when people really take it apart and listen to it, they will find that we try to be spacious.
TS- Once we come across something that's really cool we don't just sit there and try to write a couple songs just like it. One of us may play something that's totally bad, and if you can remember it let's try and do something with it.
RS- One of the things that's really hard about trying to write new songs in the frame of reference of being stuck in these songs right now..... this whole group of songs that we're playing live right now is that you're consciously influenced by the songs that you play all the time. So, it's hard to break away from it and work on something new. It's so easy to fall into the same kind of riffs, and same kinds of things you're doing all the time. You don't want to write the same kinds of shit over and over again.

AC- Do you think that White Bread Blues would have been entirely different if it had been recorded with your old drummer Devon?
RS- Yes. I don't think it would have been White Bread Blues, because White Bread Blues is really the culmination of going through-
TS- It's really weird because I worked for Victims Family for a couple years before I was even in the band, and Devon was my ultimate drummer who I thought, 'I gotta be just like that' or the only drummer I was ever really inspired by. It never really showed until I joined the band and realized I could play all these songs. It was strange because I watched him play these songs for two years, and it was like in my brain or something. It really went smooth..... we started writing songs and it just came out.
RS- Also, if we'd had Devon still, White Bread Blues would have been an album sooner, but it's cool that we had to go through all the changes of losing Devon, then having Eric Strand as the drummer, and having that not work out. The whole difficulty of getting over the break-up of the original unit contributed to our creative process.

AC- Well, is there any last minute things that Victims Family would like to say to its fans?
TS- We're not a jazz-core band, we drink a lot of beer, we don't do drugs, we're not supporting the war, and heck! we're coming to your town soon.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #1, August 1992. For more information about Victims Family visit http://www.victimsfamily.com/ and http://www2.arnes.si/~suduvido/vf/victimsf.htm

Controlled Bleeding

2006-07-07T10:28:00.000-07:00

Since the early 80's a trio of musicians have been doing their best to bewilder listeners in an audio experience known as Controlled Bleeding. Their material greatly consists of grinding machinery and deconstructive noise experiments atypical of a true industrial band, however on a whim their music becomes almost classical. The styles employed by Controlled Bleeding vary greatly from album to album, and also depends on their mood swings or individual emotional states at the time of recording. This has earned them a diverse group of fans. Imagine going to see a harsh industrial band open up for the city symphony and you'll have a pretty good idea of what Controlled Bleeding is all about. Paul Lemos, the man in charge of Controlled Bleeding, has worked hard to set the band apart from conventional music experimentation as well as attempt to further the efforts of other artists by forming the Dry Lungs series of international music compilations. He has done much to aid those who fuel the fires of artistic creativity. Now, this trio from New York are riding on a wave of disjointed noise releases brewed up for the 90's. Faster, and more menacing than some of their previous works, Controlled Bleeding once again takes another twist in its long and winding existence. Photo by Bonnie Graham, courtesy of Wax Trax.

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AC- Would you tell me a little about the meaning of "Soul vomit"?
PL- "Soul vomit" sounds pretty odd, but I suppose that has been a way to describe the motivation behind some of our recordings. A lot of the material comes from some basic need to channel internalized feelings into a creative process- so at points a lot of pent up aggressions produce some of the harsher or more violent things we've done, where as in periods of sadness or depression, a very different ambiance develops. The process of making sound and music allows us a source of pure release.

AC- I read an interview that was done with Controlled Bleeding early on in it's existence. The question of using video to convey C.B.'s music was brought up. At that time there were no plans to make any videos. Since then, have any been made? If not, will there be any to look forward to? How do you feel about the use of video?
PL- We did make one video for Wax Trax- actually, they made it. A fellow hacked up a lot of really shitty footage of nonsensical imagery and pasted it together for "Words of the Dying." It was disgusting and has been locked away. I am interested in video and would like to work with someone who is interested in aesthetics as opposed to money..... right now nothing is in the works though.

AC- How did C.B. get started out? If you were going to put the finger on someone, who would be responsible?PL- Controlled Bleeding has been the name of all my musical projects since 1978 or so. There have been about 5 different line-ups of the group, and musically there is little similarity among them. I began it as a multi-media art project in Boston. Later, it became an actual 2 man musical group, doing sort of ambient electronic dirges, then developed into a band of 3 persons. Creating a sort of farfisa organ driven surf music with experimental sound on top and fusion guitar riffing interwoven. Then it all exploded; for a year I quit- then started the present project which was originally based on experiments with sound, void of any structure or "regular" instrumentation.

AC- When C.B. sits down to begin work on new material, how does the process unfold? Is the writing and construction of the music a collaborative effort, or is one member of the group in particular solely in charge with the others following closely behind?
PL- We work in a strange way. Often times I will work alone developing rhythms or keyboard patterns or just some textural basis on top of which I or another group member will overdub parts. We rarely work as a unified trio, and rarely do we begin with a solid preconceived idea for a song or a piece of music. Each piece starts from scratch when I (or we) decide to record. Therefore, the tone of the track is often determined by our mood or feelings at the time. Some of the music is solo, but these days most of it is produced in collaboration. Generally Chris and I work together on the more rhythmic, harder edged material, since that is in keeping with our personal chemistry. Joe and I work on the more textural projects, and then often all of us add our own bits to each song. So C.B. is a group but we each work in a very different way, and usually when all of us are together nothing works out at all on tape, but we each add an equally important element which has allowed us to continue since 1983.

AC- Could you tell me a little about the importance/significance of each of C.B.'s members, and how they've grown with the music?
PL- The only members have been Chris, Joe and myself. Pecorino was a fellow with whom I worked many years ago on a song called, "Someone Shit (On My Birthday Cake)." Later I redid the song with Joe and retitled it "Red Stigmata." Linda Paganelli is a friend who added a sax part to one of our songs. She's in Sham 69 and is a great player. In terms of the individual importance of each member of the group, Joe Papa has a powerful, rich, almost operatic voice and this is his main contribution to our recent music. He is also a good funk drummer and has a keen sense of melody and rhythm. His tastes lean toward the progressive 70's music like Yes, Genesis, etc. Chris' roots are in hard thrash, like Minor Threat, Circle Jerks, Slayer- but through the years he became very interested in a wide variety of musics (Tim Story, Roger Eno, Skinny Puppy, Diamanda Galas, Phillip Glass, etc.). So Chris brings a sense of aggression to the music, but he also has a strong disciplined sense of rhythm and melody. I've always been interested in integrating noise and raw sounds into an unpredictable bag of musical styles so I lean towards the more experimental end of things. I also am interested in medieval music and modera-classical stuff as well as hip hop and thrash.....so my input is somewhat schizophrenic. I suppose we've grown as we have gotten to understand each other's strengths and weaknesses and as we learn more about the possibilities of our various instruments- things like programming computers, midi setups, sequencing etc. all has allowed material to come closer to what we imagine in our thoughts.

AC- How would you describe or categorize C.B.'s material? How has C.B. changed with the times?
PL- It's hard for me to categorize our material or to be objective about it. We've never consciously changed with the times. The music has always developed very naturally. As we become interested in certain musical areas, I'm sure it's reflected in our releases. But the music like Knees and Bones and Body Samples was a direct outgrowth of confusion and feelings of violence and rage within our personal lives. At the time the anger faded, and as life got easier, the music became gentler and more textural. And so it goes-aggression/depression, happiness comes and goes, and so the music changes frequently.

AC- Does C.B. have a doctrine or message that is trying to get out through the medium of sound, or is it simply a creative release?
PL- There is no doctrine or message that we're trying to express through what we've been doing. The only reason for it is creative and emotional release. It's a means of communicating with others and ourselves. I would probably blow my brains out if I didn't have a creative release. Music is it. For some it's painting or writing, but music has been my only love since I was ten years old.

AC- As far as live performances are concerned, what is usually the goal of C.B.? What do you consider to be a good performance versus a poor one? Do the members look forward to performing live?
PL- I used to hate the idea of playing live because I could never get the money and materials to choreograph it the way I imagined, but as our stuff has become more physical and song oriented, I find playing live a lot of fun. If I can play guitar live and if we can really play a physical, aggressive set, then it's satisfying. I don't find it enjoyable to play keyboards live or to perform a great deal of textural music- this is satisfying in the studio. But the live thing is only worthwhile if it's fun. Therefore a good performance is one that rocks and that is exhausting. One where we get some bruises and aches. Again, it has to be a release. So, we now play infrequently, but we do look forward to it every time.

AC- Why has C.B. moved so much from record label to record label? Have some of them hindered the band? How did C.B. come to rest in the hands of Wax Trax?
PL- We've done records for several small independent labels. The reason that we haven't issued our own work on one label is because none of them could effectively distribute the material. Working with 3 or 4 labels allowed us to get better distribution. Also, and most important, since we like to work with different musics we need different labels that are appropriate. Sub Rosa and Dossier Records are perfect for more experimental music, and Wax Trax was an outlet for tighter rhythmic material. Another reason why we used to issue records on several labels was because we were doing a lot of recording and needed an outlet for 3 or 4 releases in a year. These days we're very slow in working and complete about 1 record of new material per year. So we needed to settle into a more stable label deal, but as usual this may change. Some of our label experiences have hindered us- Placebo Records was problematic and so was Sterile Records. Generally, however we have hindered ourselves at points. Most of the labels have been very responsible and fair.

AC- What do C.B. fans have in store for them? Any new collaborations in the near future to keep an eye out for? How about solo pieces?
PL- C.B. has broken into a few different groups now.....Joe and I continue to work on the more classical music under the name In Blind Embrace. A new CD on C'est La Mort/Rough Trade should appear next year. I'm starting a noise/guitar project (possibly solo) for Dossier in Europe and Subterranean in the states. C.B. will direct it's focus toward harder, rhythmic music. We're working on songs for the follow-up to Trudge. The material is getting increasingly noisy. Hopefully this project will be realized by Wax Trax.

AC- Besides your involvement with the Dry Lungs compilations, and Another Room Magazine appearances, where else may stray C.B. material lurk?
PL- A few years ago I used to write for Another Room, Unsound, and a couple of other independent magazines, but it became difficult like a job- too much to do. I couldn't maintain any focus. As the demands on the group intensified, the writing stopped. Dry Lungs continues. Vol. 4 should appear in the fall and I'll start soliciting stuff for vol. 5 in the next month or two.

AC- Has Dry Lungs been an important part of C.B.? Now that Placebo Records has gone out of business, what will become of the first 3 volumes? Will there be any plans to re-release them on another label?
PL- Dry Lungs has always been a separate project from C.B.- I add our tracks to the records as a sort of trademark I suppose, but no it's not important to my work with the group. I don't think volumes 1-3 will ever be reissued. Tony Victor was a decent guy, but his partner Greg was a real asshole. They kept the tapes, artwork etc. so it's all lost in their inept hands. A shame, but beyond my control.

AC- Are there any plans to perform live on the West coast? Europe?
PL- We'd like to come out to the West coast. No plans yet, but hopefully next summer if all goes well. We'll get back to Europe in December for a short tour. It's a lot easier to play Europe than America.

AC- Do the terms "industrial music," "musique concrete," and "white noise" hold any particular significance to C.B.? If so, how?
PL- Sure, those terms hold significance to us. "Industrial" is tough to figure- does it mean Skinny Puppy and Ministry, or does it mean P16d4 and Nurse With Wound ? It's about as general as "punk" or "new wave" were. When I think of industrial, I think of our early work, based on the sounds of machinery and raw sound etc. Musique Concrete is a form of music that I enjoy- the amplification and manipulation of acoustic sounds. We've done some work in this area like the song "On Eating Garbage" and various sound pieces on "Between Tides."

AC- What is the reaction C.B. normally gets to its music? Is it welcomed with open arms by the underground? What type of person do you think would enjoy C.B.? Are you popular in other countries?
PL- The reactions we get differ. We've sufficiently confused people so that some find the more classical stuff pleasing, but dislike the other stuff and vice versa. So, we've found very varied reaction, but generally I get positive feedback. I'm sure that a record like Trudge would disappoint someone expecting a follow up to Songs From the Ashes. Thus we're separating the projects to avoid such confusion. Our work is known by few people when comparing it to stuff by bands like The Smiths, Sonic Youth, Ministry, Tears for Fears, etc. So I think it still dwells in the realms of the underground here and abroad. It's all relative. I suppose our work is mainstream compared to Etant Donnes or Merzbow. There are different levels of obscurity. Really, I don't know what types of people might take to our music. I think it depends on the project at hand. The audience that found value in Trudge was surely very different from the audience that bought Songs From the Ashes.

AC- What have been some of the high and low points of C.B.? Was there ever a time when it looked as though it was all over? Has the band ever been in turmoil?
PL- Because of the very loose nature of our collaborations together, we've never come to a point where it looked as if we'd break up. Chris works on other musical projects of his own, as I do, and Joe occasionally records with other projects. But all of us maintain our main focus on C.B., so it has remained stable. There have been highs and lows of course, but no particular experiences come to mind except when Joe was in the hospital having a quadruple bypass operation.

AC- What are your favorite C.B. pieces?
PL- My favorite piece is "Dying/Reliving," the first track on the Knees and Bones album. Also I like "By the Drain" (Hog Floor mix) a lot. I like the "Silken Barb" from the Trudge CD, and "Crimes of the Body." Tracks like "The Peacock" on Songs From the Ashes and "Consecration's Will" from the Joined at the Head ep are also some favorites.

AC- Why was the song "Healing Time" remixed for the Trudge release? Which one do you like better- the original from Music for Gilded Chambers, or Trudge?
PL- We remixed it because we got some money to do a full studio mix. I like the Trudge mix much more.....Gilded Chambers was done in my home studio which is mediocre at best.

AC- In the future, when people look back on C.B., what do you think they will say about the music? How would you like to have the group remembered?
PL- This is a hard question. I'm not sure what people would say. I guess it depends on what projects they've heard- perhaps they'd say we were musical chameleons. I suppose I'd like to have the band remembered for its movement through different musics, for its schizophrenia.

AC- How soon do you think industrial music will be considered to be obsolete? When do you think it will cease to exist as a movement, or is there a movement?
PL- I think industrial music as a movement has become obsolete in a sense. I recall early Einsturzende Neubauten, TestDept., Vivenza, etc. as industrial, using the tools of industry-machinery and metals. The stuff that one normally associates with "industrial" these days is just new beat orientated dance music melded with thrash/metal. I don't see these musics in the same genre.

AC- How much unreleased C.B. will be left after the Hog Floor LP comes out? Are some of the earlier efforts by the band considered to be unfit?
PL- We have loads of unreleased stuff from 1983 and 1984 when we were doing a lot of noise onto cassette. But yes, I think most of it isn't fit to be heard. There will be a couple of CD releases of unreleased noise work from some small European labels, and Dossier will issue a CD of Body Samples including other unissued noise tracks.

AC- Is the diversity of C.B.'s music from album to album solely attributed to emotional swings of the members, or a result of diverse musical training?
PL- I think the diversity of the music stems from boredom and from our changing musical interests, as well as the different emotional swings. None of us were musically trained, but we have all played our instruments for a long time- so as we work together it's fun to experiment and move in a variety of directions. Sometimes however, the material isn't fun at all. It's sometimes very upsetting.

AC- Why did the name Controlled Bleeding stick?
PL- I guess we kept the name because after a time it gained some recognition, so it seemed foolish to change it. But the name doesn't relate to the music as it once did.

AC- What has been one of the most outlandish or unusual experiences that comes to mind since you started C.B.? Any stories or ironic mishaps?
PL- There have been many outlandish experiences, most of which I cannot discuss. Getting metal shards stuck in my eye recently was pretty uncomfortable, fighting with Chris on stage in Berlin was another. Driving 12 hrs. (directly after an 8 hr. flight to Europe) from Frankfurt airport to Milan, Italy only to find the club we were playing was a gutted out flooded concrete dump with no P.A. system-that was pretty unnerving.

AC- Could you tell us a little about the new graphic symbol being used on the recent C.B. releases?
PL- The symbol was created by Brian Shanley at Wax Trax. It has no name. It was abstracted from the cover of the Grinding Wall ep- this meaning is vague, but I've come to see it as a symbol representing unity through separation, if that makes any sense. It kind of depicts the way we work!

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #1, August 1992.

Shadow Project

2006-07-06T18:41:00.000-07:00

From the remains of Christian Death, Superheroines', and Mephisto Waltz, emerges a new audio experience created by Rozz Williams. Shadow Project was formed in San Francisco in 1988 by Rozz and Eva O. (of Superheroines) to, among other things, focus on the struggle of opposing forces... namely Christianity and Satanism. In 1991 Shadow Project released their debut album, and more recently have released "Dreams for the Dying" LP. This new material from Rozz and his bandmates incorporates an early gothic sound with a slight dash of Musique Concrete. This should not come as a surprise to many people, as Rozz was behind another project, Premature Ejaculation which spawned some very memorable works influenced by traditional Musique Concrete soundforms. Photos courtesy of Cleopatra Records. Rozz/Eva photo by Iggy Vamp.

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Interviews with: Rozz Williams- RW, Eva O.- EO, Paris- P, William Faith-WF, and Stevyn Grey- SG.

Paris

AC- So, what's your name?
P- My name is Paris.

AC- The whole thing... and basically all of it?
P- Yeah.

AC- Are you one of the new members, or have you been with Shadow Project the whole time?
P- I've been in for about two years.

AC- What got you into it?
P- I was a friend of Eva's, and I liked the music and they liked the way I played and it happened.

AC- Any thoughts on what it's like playing in a group like this?
P- Well actually before I joined Shadow Project, I never even knew of Christian Death or Superheroines or anything like that. So it was all new to me and I just took it from a fresh start.

AC- Kind of your first exposure to the whole scene?
P- It wasn't my first exposure to the whole scene, but it was my first exposure to playing on stage in front of an audience.

AC- How do you feel about it now that you have been doing it for a while?
P- I love it. I wouldn't do anything else.

AC- What's the worst thing that has happened to you in a club, in front of an audience?
P- Let's see... the worst thing that's happened to me while I was playing, was in New York. We did a show and... at The Pyramid, and we were doing the end of "Into the Light," and I do a solo thing at the end. The audience started clapping before the song was over and I kinda got mad. It ends on a loud note anyways, but I got a little carried away, and I knocked over all my keyboards. That was probably the most embarrassing thing, but I liked it anyway. I enjoyed knocking over my keyboards.

AC- Kind of a release thing. What's your opinion of the whole "Goth" scene? What's it like working with people who essentially are responsible for starting the scene as it's known today?
P- They're just people, and they're my friends, and I love them. I don't treat them any different than that.

AC- What's the biggest rush you get out of all this?
P- There's a couple rushes I get all throughout everything. Sometimes I get... before every show I get nervous. I get butterflies. But that could be the day before or an hour before the show, or as I'm walking onto the stage. It doesn't really make a difference. I always get that feeling. And that's a rush in itself. There's also another rush I get when I'm out there on stage doing a solo thing... nobody else on stage. I get a great rush out of that. And I get a rush when people slam dance.

AC- The phrase, "Living above the chemist" how common is that? Substance abuse and things like that in this band?
P- Okay. Out of the last four shows, two out of four of them ended up like that.

AC- There was a very heavy religious theme in a lot of the early Christian Death material. Is that present with Shadow Project?
P- Yeah, but it's... there's a lot more to it than that. It goes way beyond religion. It's about real life. Being real. Reality.

AC- What kind of reality? Is there a cohesive philosophy to the whole thing?
P- As far as Rozz' lyrics go, you'd have to ask him. But I'm sure everything you hear out of Rozz' mouth is open for interpretation, and as far as the musicians go we play what we feel and if people can't understand what we're playing then they don't understand how we feel.

AC- How does this apply to you?
P- It's something I have to do.

AC- So even if you knew nobody would ever hear you again, you'd keep doing this.
P- Oh yes.

AC- What got you started playing keyboards?
P- It's something I've always wanted to do. My mother had a piano in the house and I liked to play it. Then I found out about electronic keyboards, so I started getting into that. I conned people into buying them for me, and now I have a whole bunch of them, and I love to play them. I never want to play anything else. Except maybe the bagpipes.

AC- Solo projects. Tell me about it.
P- Okay. It's called EXP, and it's just starting out. We did one performance, it's more theatrical than musical, but I do have soundtrack stuff for it and I'm going to expand on it and make it more musical as time progresses. Right now I have a 90min. tape that I'm trying to get mixed and mastered... give demos out to people.

AC- How is it different from what you're doing now?
P- It's totally different. It's more atmospheric. It doesn't have a full band. It's always me and one other person. The one other person is always different. So, it's just me working with a lot of people.

AC- What do the letters stand for, anything in particular?
P- Experimental, or Experimentation.

EvaO.

AC- How do you like touring?
EO- I love it. I want to do it for the rest of my life and never have a home. That would be the best dream to come true.

AC- Any particular experiences while touring, good or bad, come to mind? Preferably good since we've already been through bad.
EO- I love New York.

AC- Any particular reason why? People... buildings?
EO- The people are great, the buildings are great, it's really just like a dream-world to me. It was really nice there. We actually ran into a lot of bad luck, but I still had a great time and I can't wait to go there again.

AC- Just as kind of a tongue-in-cheek thing, any fashion tips for would-be deathrockers?
EO- Wow... I don't know. Everybody wear dog collars so I can grab you and carry you around by your chain.

AC- How do you guys keep your white face from falling off when you're playing?
EO- I put powder over it. And I mix mine with regular stuff. I don't know. Mine comes off when you start sweating. Unless you get waterproof stuff. I don't think they make it though.

AC- Any closing comments?
EO- I was told to say something... but I guess I won't.

AC- What what what?!
EO- Oh, nothing. Let's see... any closing comments. Enjoy love.

William Faith and Stevyn Grey

AC- You guys said you came from the same background. What background is that?
WF- We were originally in a band called Mephisto Waltz. We have been for some years.

AC- What was that like? Is it any different from what you're doing now?
WF- Well, it's a completely different style of music as far as the artform itself. We were working with a person by the name of Berry who used to be in Christian Death for a while and we did a little bit of that material, a lot of his own material which is vastly different from a lot of what's going on these days. At the moment things are in limbo with him. We're not exactly sure what's been going on. He's been busy, we've been busy. It's possible that we'll work together again soon. In the meantime Stevyn and I were offered by Rozz and Eva to Join Shadow Project. We've been on tour with them in Germany previously (with Mephisto Waltz) and they expressed some interests towards Stevyn and I joining their line-up, and we have. So, we've been working with them for a while now. It's been a really great time. They're wonderful people to work with. Working with Paris and Rozz has been a really great experience, and they're all fun. The music is very powerful. Very energetic, which I like a lot.

AC- What are some of the more unusual things you have noticed about your work?
WF- An audience's interpretation of things can usually catch my interest to a massive extent. With the different bands I've been in I've gotten all kinds of different responses as to what the people think the material is supposed to be about. I've always preferred that people take their own interpretation of it because that will usually give them a little more of a personal bond with what I'm doing. Overall, it's been really interesting to hear some of the interpretations of some of the material we've been doing in different bands. Some people think I'm a complete, total Satanist. Other people think that I'm some sort of sexual deviant. It's really interesting. There's all kinds of different interpretations of what goes on. Plus the general population, you know... John Q. Public's interpretation of what's going on here is really funny. I always get a kick out of that as well. When they ask me what kind of a band I'm in and then, you know obviously saying, "Gothic Rock" or anything like that, that's when most heads sway. So when you end up trying to equate yourself to a band they understand, you end up saying something ridiculous like U2.

AC- What's your take on the whole religion thing? Does it hold any significance for you regarding what you're doing now?
WF- It's a personal thing, as far as religion goes. I don't have a religion per se'... it's my own personal beliefs more or less. However, overall it's rather involved... as far as organized religion goes, I despise organized religion to the fullest extent.
SG- I believe that everybody should do what's in their heart. Follow their heart, no matter what that is. If their conscience tells them that's what they are supposed to be doing, then they should go ahead and do it.

Rozz Williams

AC- Are you dead, physically speaking after a show?
RW- I'm... no, I'm not dead.

AC- How do you feel after a show?
RW- It all depends on the audience. If the audience is enthusiastic then I'm pretty much up and into going out. If the audience is pretty slow and just like sitting there or whatever, it kinda makes me upset because I'm putting everything that I have into what I am doing. And then I look out and see these people just standing there looking like...

AC- Fish.
RW- Right. Like that's the way they're supposed to be. "Oh, this is Gothic-Rock so I guess we're just supposed to stand around." Believe me we're not Gothic-Rock. We're beyond labeling. We do not label ourselves. We dabble in everything that interests us. I don't know... I try to keep people going, through the energy because I feel it only fair that if we're putting so much into something that we would like something back. In return, as far as audience reaction. It's all up to them, you know. But there are certain points where... I mean if someone's going to be... if the whole audience is going to be sitting down on the floor while we're playing then I will literally step off the stage with my microphone stand or anything that's handy and start breaking some heads open. Because it's like, I'm sorry, if you want to just sit... go home and listen to your records. Don't come to a show. Why bother? Why bother wasting your money? Why bother doing any of it? If you're coming to a show and the show is energetic and you're seeing something happening in front of you then get involved in it. Get involved. That's why earlier I was saying, "Wake up people!"

AC- What did you mean by that?
RW- I meant wake up. I'm so tired of seeing people standing around not looking at their own lives, at their own situation. At anything that's going on around them. People are so blinded. People are so locked in fear. They can't do anything. They're terrified of themselves. That's all I was trying to say tonight, was look at yourselves. Take a look at yourselves. Is this who you really think you are? Is this who you really feel comfortable being? If not, then be something else. If you can't be happy being something else, then kill yourself or I'll do it for you. Because there are too many people on the face of this earth. It's a waste. There is too much waste of human flesh on the face of this earth, and it's either wake up and say, "This is who I am, this is what I am going to do with myself, this is how I enjoy myself, this is my belief system, and this is how I am going to live my life." I see so many people who don't do that. They follow. They're followers. Half of the world are followers. There are not many leaders. Followers, to me are worthless. They're beyond contempt. They should be killed. If someone doesn't do it... that's why I admire certain killers. Because, somebody's gotta do it! If they don't do it themselves... you know I get these letters, "Oh, I tried to slash my wrists last week and I was listening to your record and the blood was spilling from my veins... and it was oh-so-gothic." It's like, "Okay give me your address and I'll come over. I'll slit your fucking throat. I'll do it right. I'll kill you dead, because you're worthless." You know what I mean? It's like wake up, face up to who you are, be who you are and live it or get rid of yourself. There's too many people here already.

AC- If all these people have no concept of who they are, what do you think it's going to take to "Wake them up?"
RW- I have no idea. I'm hoping that what we're doing musically will be able to open a few eyes and say, "Well, look. These people are up on stage doing this and living their lives and being who they are so possibly we can do the same thing with our own lives." You have to grow with that. You have to find that within yourself. No one can give that to you. I can't give that to anybody. A television evangelist can't give that to anybody. Bozo the Clown can't give that to anybody. You have to find within yourself who you are, and what your belief system is. Who you are going to live your life by. You should be yourself. Hopefully with our music what I would like to think... that we're doing to some extent is opening some eyes. Or opening some doors. Letting people say, "Okay, maybe I am a little insecure. Maybe I am a little fearful of what I'm doing... because I live with my parents and my parents don't like what I'm doing. I go to school, and school doesn't like what I'm doing." Fuck all that shit! You do what you need to do to live, to survive. That's what we're trying to get across in our music. Survive. Fucking be yourself. You don't have to be a person that comes up to me and looks exactly like me, or thinks exactly like me... or whatever. If you have strong convictions and you have beliefs and you are living your own life for yourself then I have a great respect for anyone who does that. I don't care what they look like, what their job is, what they do. If they have a strong conviction in what they are doing and a strong belief system in what they're doing... then all of the power to them. That's wonderful. I just get so sick of seeing followers. They're just following trends, looking at other people around them. Fuck that crap. Those people are on the list of the people that should be killed.

AC- In the years that you have been performing... you're basically one of the few people that has engendered a lot of followers. How do you feel about that? To know that what you created some time ago has had this result. RW- I don't care. I'm doing this because I believe in it. I'm not doing it to find followers. I'm not doing it to have people come and say, "Oh this is so wonderful." I'm doing it because it's what I believe in. I could care less if there was no one out there. I would do it nonetheless because I'm doing it for myself. If people get something from it, then great. That's wonderful. I have no interest in making people want to emulate or copy or follow, or be any part of that. That's of no interest to me, I don't care about that at all.

AC- What specifically are your beliefs when relating to others?
RW- The way I choose to get by in doing it is being as honest as possible about it, and laying my cards on the table. Saying, "This is who I am, this is what I am about. If you can deal with it then that's great." If I can walk into a supermarket and get respect from a person who happens to be there... I show no disrespect toward anyone. I respect everyone...

AC- Whether or not they have done you a wrong?
RW- Exactly. But, If it comes to a point of someone getting in my face and directly telling me, "I don't respect you," then I'm willing to take them out. They're useless. They're just dead flesh and I would have no second thoughts about it... killing anybody like that because I've lived so many years dealing with bullshit from people. I'm just living my life. If people can't deal with that, that's their own fucking trip. That's their own fear, that's their own insecurity. If they just leave me alone... fine. If they get in my face about it then they're going to get in some trouble about it. I will take action. I will take the closest thing at hand and break their head open.

AC- Have you had cause to do this in the past?
RW- Oh yeah. I'm sure it will happen in the future again. I kind of look forward to it, to some extent.

AC- For a long time I have been very interested in your views concerning religion. Your music tends to be very anti-religion. Are you directing your songs against Christ and God, or just towards religion in general?
RW- I believe in God. I believe in Satan. That's one of the lyrics in one of our songs, "I am Satan, I am God." To me there is no outside force. It's in me. I am God. I'm the one who creates my own life. I'm the one who deals with everything in my life. And I'm Satan in my life... if you want to put it down to terms like that. I don't particularly like using terms like that, because I don't respect organized religion.

AC- What is your definition of Morality?
RW- I don't necessarily believe in morality. Morality is what you make of it. If my morality was to go out and kill a few people... then that would be morality. There is no morality. There is no universal morality. It doesn't exist. It's the same thing as everything else. It's what you choose to make of it. I have no idea what morality is. Morality is my stealing a tip from a table at a restaurant if I feel like it. Or leaving a fifty dollar bill for a tip at a restaurant. Morality means nothing. It's just a word.

AC- You mentioned earlier there were certain killers you admired. Who and why?
RW- Charles Manson, because I admire his truthfulness and I admire his philosophy. I think that the only reason he's locked up is because he tells the truth and that's why he's in jail. Because he's a truthful person. He opens up.

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Late in 1992 I was buried in work and far behind schedule with putting together the next issue of Antocularis. Because I didn't have much spare time I asked a friend, Damion Tidd to help me out. Rozz Williams' new group called Shadow Project was going to play at a venue in San Francisco and I had set up an appointment to meet them and do an interview with the band. I couldn't make the gig to do the interview in person so I asked Damion to go and do the interview for me. He readily agreed. On October 6th, 1992 Damion met up with Shadow Project and talked with the band members separately, backstage at some dive in the city. I was going to include this article in Antocularis issue #3, but I decided against it. Shortly thereafter I shut down my magazine project and this interview ended up in a file folder where it sat for the past 14 years never having been read by anyone besides myself and Damion. So, here is a lost interview with Rozz published for the first time.

Rozz Williams committed suicide on April 1st, 1998. http://www.rozznet.com/

Sleep Chamber

2006-07-03T00:29:00.000-07:00

Sleep Chamber is the creation of John Zewizz, a man who has mixed Industrial music with dark mystical themes and lustful, sexual overtones. His material can be disturbing and powerfully erotic at the same time, a BDSM fetish soundtrack containing forbidden carnal pleasures. Not surprisingly this has resulted in some controversy being directed at Sleep Chamber and triggered some legal hassles for John. Recently I had an opportunity to interview John about Sleep Chamber and his side project, Women of the SS. Photography by Amy Nitrate.

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AC- Please tell us when and how Sleep Chamber came into existence.
JZ- In 1982 Sleep Chamber waz born. It waz a combination of my frustration in alternative musick and an obsession with my own sexual identity.

AC- Are there any other projects you are involved in besides Sleep Chamber and Women of the SS?
JZ- That's about it for now. I waz interested with other projects (Cult Ov the Womb, Hideous in Strength), but I had no time. Sleep Chamber takes up 100% ov my time. If I had any extra time after that, I sleep.

AC- What is your place in Women of the SS? What do you contribute to that project?
JZ- Women of the SS iz sort ov a solo project, it usually does not involve a band or any traditional stereotypical type ov musick. It involves Women on vocal or spoken word, while I create a soundtrack type ov musical scene. It's always moody, I have a good time working on the musick. There are no limitations az far az what I have to accomplish... I just like it lusty.

AC- Are there any similarities between Sleep Chamber and Women of the SS?
JZ- Sometimes Women of the SS ideas cross over into Sleep Chamber, but Sleep Chamber never crosses over to Women of the SS. Sleep Chamber iz usually rhythm structured or ritualistic. Women of the SS iz usually atmospheric soundtrack musick with a Woman's spoken words laced throughout, almost like a story or play.

AC- Do you allow the Women of the SS members to come up with their own spoken word material, or do you control that aspect as well as the musical side?
JZ- I write the spoken word pieces for the Women of the SS tracks. I think that way it maintains a certain style. I'm open to ideas with the girls... but I usually already have something in mind for theze tracks. The musickal style iz also my own. It's usually violin and synth tracks overlaid. Nothing too complicated.

AC- You mentioned that you likeWomen of the SS material to be particularly lusty. What viewpoint is this lust coming from? For example, is it Women toward Men, Women toward Women, etc.?
JZ- It iz usually Woman to Woman. On occasion it's them to me, or a woman addressing a man.

AC- When did you start Women of the SS?
JZ- I think it waz in 1985. Around the same time az "Submit to Desire" waz released.

AC- I would like to know, what are some areas of subject matter you like to explore with Sleep Chamber?
JZ- My personal favorite subject ov interest iz the Female. I'm very private about it, I feel it's a very personal issue. I take it very seriously, it's not just sex. To me it's much more complicated than that. Sexuality iz not a simple thing, it's very detailed and complex. Obviously Sleep Chamber musick iz saturated in sexuality, I guess it just leaks out. Sleep Chamber iz an exhibit of my personality, it's more about me than about sexuality (though sexuality does play a major role in my musick).

AC- Sleep Chamber's music explores many of the dark aspects of sex, and sexual relations. Why?
JZ- Like I said Sleep Chamber iz about me, the insight involved deals with my obsessions and curiosities. When I explore a sexual situation or obsession, it somehow naturally materializes in the concept of Sleep Chamber musick. In the musick I don't "sing" about theze subjects. I try to create an atmosphere or mood, where the words are more conceived than interpreted.

AC- In your opinion, is sex a tool to use to dominate or to liberate others?
JZ- Sex can obviously and iz obviously used az a tool, though I avoid that. Alot of people mis-interpret Sleep Chamber az a sexually exploitative band. I am not interested in dominating or liberating others' sexuality, my interests and accomplishments are totally personal. I've said this before, sexuality iz not a "fad" or "style" for me. It iz part ov who I am, not who I want to be. I'm not really interested in anyone's sexuality, unless of course I'm involved with her.

AC- What has been your response to those who believe your work is purely sex-exploitative?
JZ- Well, at first my reaction waz that ov frustration. But people are generally simple-minded. I also understand how the public thinks, on a very surface level. The only thing that kums to mind to them when you mention "sex" iz intercourse. I think it's natural to be frustrated with your efforts if some or most misinterpret or do not understand... but you start to understand yourself more. And you understand their stupidity...You have to be able to be somewhat critical ov your own work to be able to sit back and see it clearly. If you think that everything you do iz great... you are an idiot. Even the best have shitty days. And no one or anything iz ever perfect.

AC- How does the creative process unfold for the construction of Sleep Chamber's material? Who else contributes to this process?
JZ- The musick never starts the same. I don't have one same style ov writing, composing, or arranging ov musick. The easiest and probably most used style ov constructing Sleep Chamber musick starts with the rhythm ov the percussion, then the bass, then the vocals. After that the guitar and keyboards are arranged and processed. It seems that there iz a different line-up for each recording project... it just works out that way.

AC- Sleep Chamber's other focus seems to be upon the Satanic. Has Sleep Chamber been pegged by some as being Satanic? If so, how do you respond to this?
JZ- There are Satanic overtones and ideas. Though peoples' version ov what Satanic iz and what I visualize are completely different. And what "Satanic" iz interpreted az in general iz again questionable.

AC- What do you think the "general" idea of Satanism is compared to that of your own?
JZ- I think 90% ov the population have this idea that Satanism iz a group ov subversives in black robes and hoods on their knees to a goat with a pitchfork. I think they see the devil az having red shiny skin, a pointed tail, and horns. Not to forget the pitchfork. The typical image instilled in us az fear, when we are young. Az in the dark ages, which we are still in, the forced belief waz if you do not believe in "my" god you are against him... the social style ov elevating oneself while defaming others. My idea of Satanism iz that ov enchanting, esoteric, spellbinding, reversal ov values and traditions, Kaos az a means ov protection, and an individual system ov conversity.

AC- Where is Sleep Chamber's place in the Industrial scene? How do you think Sleep Chamber relates to Industrial culture?
JZ- People and critics in the rock "scene" hate us, people in the "Industrial" scene hate us. We have never really been accepted in a "scene." So we have accepted our outlaw type of image, not being able to fit into a "scene" or keep people in that scene happy. I don't find it rewarding to be unaccepted in the musick scene in general. You are not reviewed in magazines, you are not worthy ov airplay, etc... this all costs you time and money invested into something people are going out ov their way to ignore. I do not intentionally try to shock or offend people. The image and musick iz presented az I see it. I am in control and some people hate that.

AC- I am surprised that you feel people who listen to Industrial music dislike your work. I have found much of your material to be very true to the original Industrial concept. Why do you think this "hate," or unacceptance of your work has been directed toward Sleep Chamber?
JZ- I don't think they "hate" the work az much az they hate the impact or concept ov Sleep Chamber. I think that however simple SC seems at times, it still instinctively causes one to examine their values or opinion. In some cases your morals. SC iz not "party" musick so what iz it? It's not meant for loud, fast dancing... "but the topics, words, and ideas make me think... so I guess this musick causes me to examine my values... this musick makes me think! I hate that!..." Some people "hate" it when they react instinctively to something someone else iz controlling. I guess they feel either "out ov control" or they do not trust instinct... or they are afraid ov what they might react to, that iz, really their true feelings. I mean the musick on the surface might be cool sounding, or interesting, or unique, or original... or whatever, but what it holds inside iz quite "different" or intentional. It might open doors you may not want opened. It might change your mind. It might make you think az an individual. You might be made to stand on your own and speak for yourself. You may even realize how alone we all are here... but it's only musick... right?

AC- Would you tell us about your incident with the Department of the Treasury confiscating some of your mail? I'd like to know how it began, how you reacted at first, and if it was ever resolved.
JZ- It seems that the U.S. post office haz sometimes little to do but open other peoples' mail. This iz how this situation arose. They opened a package out ov curiosity because, #1 it waz addressed to Sleep Chamber, the rest iz history... after they saw a sexually orientated photograph (a cassette cover), they figured I waz a pervert that needed to be taught a lesson. It seems that after that initial incident, I must have been put on a computer. All my mail kumming or going waz being opened and seized. The "Spellbondage" album waz seized in Japan. The "Warm Leatherette" 45 with picture sleeve waz seized twice in Canada and confiscated. I slowed down business for a year and the heat sort ov cooled down. Today they have seemed to lay off.

AC- This cassette cover in question was something that I assume you had no control over. It was something the Staaltape record label of the Netherlands was considering for use with some of your releases, correct? How did Staaltape react to this situation?
JZ- Yes, it waz the Staaltape. The people at Staaltape just kept quiet. I don't know if this situation scared them off. I have done nothing with them since. And have had no communication with them since.

AC- In light of that incident, how do you feel about others deciding what you can and cannot see or possess?
JZ- Up until that incident, I really had little experience with others controlling my musick or ideas. I waz really offended that some idiot could have say or control over my ideas. It's an unbearable invasion of your freedom. How can someone or someone's opinion be in control over your freedom, your freedom ov conception, a concept that harms no one. The part that makes me so crazy about it all iz that the U.S. Customs agent told me that I could not import "in" anything that might be considered obscene. He then informed me just what waz considered "obscene." Basically anything that showed naked bodies. I mentioned stores selling Playboy, Penthouse, etc... video rental stores that stock X-rated video, etc. He informed me that waz all okay because it waz already in the country. I mean... what the fuck, that monopoly! They want to control what kums and goes... so that they can charge fines, taxes, etc.?

AC- How do you think this relates to the censorship that is currently taking place in some aspects of the music industry?
JZ- What iz taking place now in the musick industry iz a gradual process. In ten years the laws will be so detailed, the artist will have hiz/her head up their ass trying "not to be creative," but to be a machine that iz dictated by public demand and corporate influence... like today but much worse! Censorship iz not all on high levels of control. It happens on smaller levels like radio stations and magazine reviews. Everybody practices some sort ov level ov control. But you have to know the difference between control and censorship.

AC- I think that much of the censorship directed towards music misses the target. It's really amusing that the corporate record labels deal with such a high level of censorship control, over groups who are harmless to the masses at large... when in the underground of music there are a few groups who could really be genuine threats to impressionable people. You'd think censors would be paying more attention to the underground, but they don't. Why do you think this is?
JZ- Like you said, the targets are bigger, have more money, and are ov no real threat. So the censorship iz a power play ov control and exploitation towards those who can afford to "pay" the game. You can make a better example ov someone that's a big target. If you are not famous no one cares what happens to you. Most ov the people in the "big" musick market are playing a censorship game. They do it intentionally. To be censored... iz the easiest way to draw attention. I guess you could almost call it "Satanic"... the public will buy something the government wants to control, or does not want you to hear. Government and religion are somewhat identical in control and dominance... don't you think? They both greed for the power ov control. Both wanting to control and censor but not to be controlled or censored. And most importantly... not to be held responsible!

AC- Let's take it one step further. Censorship of music is a result of people "passing the buck" toward the artist(s) who have created music which was thought to influence people to harm themselves or others. It's the fear-reaction that something may happen as a result of listening to a particular record by a particular group. Do you agree with this theory?
JZ- Well, that's really a difficult question. That situation iz more detailed than the question. It reflects morals, responsibility, intention, liability, influence, corruption, and to say the least, judgement. The audience iz your biggest liability... some bigger artists have insurance (money). But just because you have money does this mean you are responsible and those without money are not responsible? It's so hard to say... but I am a responsible person at heart. But how can you be responsible for a person who iz a timebomb waiting to go off, or someone who "misinterprets" you, your message, and everything in hiz/her life in general? Does it kum down to burden ov proof? Or an in depth investigation to responsibility? It's complicated. But with all power kums consequence and responsibility... if not, we are only politicians ov our opinions and artforms.
So, I guess I would (believe it or not) sway more to the argument ov being somewhat responsible for your power ov influence. Not for the sake ov blame, but for the moral ov responsibility. In one way it's too easy to say I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE, and it's too easy not to be responsible. But if you are really "in control" you should be aware ov consequence. If not you are an ignorant fool and have learned nothing ov what power you might have gained. Theory: What is your message? Iz it clear? Directed to whom? Personal or public message? Why?
I hate to see restrictions on free forms ov creativity, but the misuse or corruption ov creativity must... be allowed. This iz so fucking complicated. Who then makes the rules? We have to allow the wrong, so to protect the right, because we can trust no one's only opinion. It can get so complicated, we question our (and we must) own intuition. The major part ov creativity iz responsibility... like a child you create. You are responsible, right? And az we see in reality, some are ignorant and reject their own responsibility. Out ov ignorance. To create iz a powerful gift. Be concerned with your power ov influence. Az the gods did to protect their magickal secrets and seals. With all power kums corruption and exploitation. Reserve your self-righteousness because it iz ov no use. It remains an opinion in this battle. If you have power... respect it, learn from it, direct it, CONTROL IT! Because ignorance ov your own power ov influence iz stupidity.

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This interview was originally scheduled to be included in Antocularis issue #3 April, 1993 however it was never published and this is the first time it has seen the light of day.

Throughout the first half of the 1990s Sleep Chamber continued to grow in popularity and notoriety. Unfortunately for John in 1996 he was implicated in a murder investigation. He was eventually cleared in the case, but the toll from this incident and a growing drug addiction caused John to fade from view. In 2002 a Boston newspaper interviewed John about Sleep Chamber, the murder case, and his battle with drug addiction. It's a good read so check it out. http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/music/cellars/documents/02257161.htm

John Gullak

2006-07-02T12:57:00.000-07:00

"Why Johnny Ticks" graphite on paper by John Gullak.

For almost a decade, KPFA radio in Berkeley has aired a program called No Other Radio Network. John Gullak, the host of No Other Radio Network broadcasts over the air every Tuesday night at midnight. Experimental electronic and Industrial music from local bay area artists, as well as from all over the world can be heard. The show usually lasts for an hour and a half, and doesn't disappoint listeners' expectations for supplying the audio-unusual. John has had an interesting past. During the punk scene in the late 70s, he played base for the group, The Mutants. In the early 1980s he produced his own publication, Another Room Magazine, which featured artists involved in many underground scenes, as well as pop culture. Throughout the years, John has maintained his artistic focus by experimenting with the human anatomy in very detailed pencil drawings- some of which are featured in the debut issue of Cyanosis Magazine. John plans to continue with No Other Radio, and in the future, he hopes to produce a series of compilation albums of industrial/experimental music via Subterranean Records in San Francisco. John spoke with me at the KPFA studios one evening during the No Other Radio show.

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AC- how long have you been doing the NO OTHER RADIO NETWORK program on KPFA?
JG- Well, the show started in 1982. Back then it was every other week and actually was on at a different time as well. I forget when it was- it's been switched around quite a bit. So it was on every other week and it was just called "No Other Radio." Then in 1985 I got weekly slots and that's when I came up with the "Network" idea. The reason I did that was it's a lot of work putting together the shows because there's a lot of music to listen to and trying to get it all compiled with what I'm going to do. Usually it takes close to twelve hours to put it together. Maybe not that much now though. Anyways, I used to put twelve hours into putting a show together. I realized that I just couldn't put that much time into each individual show, plus actually doing it over the air, so I figured I'd call up the network and get other people together to help doing the show. Brian Ladd and Julie Frith were doing Radio Object. They'd send tapes in and I'd play some of their shows. Steve Iverson would do a show like once a month or so to help break it up and give me a rest. I think all of this made the show more diverse. Now Eldon's been helping out a lot, and that's really good.

AC- I spoke with Eldon about a week or two ago and he had mentioned that you had started out working in a factory in Oakland playing tapes over a P.A. system. Would you tell us about that?
JG- Eldon's talking about these events we did called "public hearings." They were put on in conjunction with Another Room Magazine, and we did three of them. Basically it was real simple. We just put loudspeakers on the roof of the warehouse and solicited tapes through the magazine for people to send them in to broadcast out into the public on a certain date to go along with the environmental sounds. The first one that we did was probably in 1980, and we got around eighty tapes. The second one we got close to 200 tapes, and the third one about the same amount came in. The last one was held on Halloween at midnight. Right around that time Charles Armoconian from KPFA had an opening for a show. At that time there was a very popular show in Holland called the Home Tapers Show. I've forgotten the person's name who ran it. Charles thought it might be good to get something like that. He was familiar with the public hearings-

AC- So you were the man for the job.
JG- Yeah, at the time. I already had a network of people who were doing home recordings and it was amazing to get those tapes at that point. To know there were that many people out there doing stuff. They didn't have any way to get their music heard. I mean, the college stations wouldn't play them because they were too wild- too way out for that and everything. So that's where I got the name for the show no other radio, it's because there's no other radio that'll do it.

AC- If you can remember, how many people would show up to the public hearings?
JG- Well, they lasted for half a day and we'd start around six in the morning. The first hearing only drew in maybe a couple dozen people. Next time throughout the day fifty people showed up. The last one on Halloween turned into a party. For that occasion we didn't broadcast off the roof, we put the speakers back in a railroad spur so you had to walk back there at night where these sounds were coming out of nowhere. That was nice.

AC- Did you ever have anyone from a record company show up and check it out- some kind of a scout or anything like that?
JG- Oh no, nothing like that.

AC- Just mostly your friends?
JG- Yeah and mostly the artists that were involved. Other people came by. Curious about what was going on. It was intended for the surrounding neighborhood. In fact, at the second public hearing, the police were called and they came in and told us to shut it down. The classic story behind it was, across the street from where we were doing the sound piece, a metal salvage yard was dropping metal into railroad cars. It was so loud that the police had to come inside to talk to us and tell us to turn down the music. We were disturbing the neighborhood but we couldn't even talk because the people across the street were making so much noise. It was great.

AC- How would you categorize the music featured on No Other Radio?
JG- Well there's a wide variety. The easiest pigeon hole I'd say is experimental. Then again nothing is really that experimental anymore. I mean there's so many people doing so many different things that you run out of things to do. When it first started out with people cutting tapes up and putting them back together- that was real experimental. It's still being done, but you'd call it cut up music, or Musique Concrete. Maybe Difficult music or.... I don't know. In the KPFA folio, No Other Radio is listed as "the underground of the underground."

AC- By playing music submitted to you, do you think the show has helped any of them to gain success or notoriety?
JG- I don't think there is any tape I've played that people have become famous from, or been discovered through the show. However the show has been one of the first places to play a lot of artists. One of the first shows to really concentrate and feature certain artists. When the show started out we played mostly cassettes. It was all cassette music, but a lot of those people that we originally played on cassette are now being played off of CD's. They've followed through with the progression and become successful with their material. I do honestly feel that having their music played on the show did give them encouragement to continue. I think it's an important show in that sense.

AC- What are your future plans for No Other Radio?
JG- Nothing (laughs). The only thing I can think of is we've talked about doing syndication and possibly having Subterranean Records do a series of compilation albums.

AC- Have you released any compilation albums in the past?
JG- No, just the audio Another Room Magazine tapes. A lot of those people I got in touch with because of the radio show. Those are the only releases at this point.

AC- In the future you will be putting some out?
JG- Well, Steve Tupper at Subterranean said that he would like to do that and I've already asked certain artists to put stuff together for that, but it's going to be a while because he has such a backlog of things to do.

AC- What kind of reaction does No Other Radio get from listeners?
JG- It depends. There's a lot of different people so it's hard to get some kind of general response. The type of reaction I like to get from people is, I like to get them hooked. I try to play things that if they're switching channels it'll stop them and make them listen for at least a few minutes. Hopefully even longer because they might think they're in between stations not knowing what's going on. Maybe it'll just make them stop and think about what they actually do listen to, and get the idea that there are other options available. I think that most people who listen to it think it's just horrible.

AC- How do you go about previewing the music you might put into a show?
JG- I listen to tapes, not so much anymore, but I used to listen to tapes all the time. You get so many tapes and you only have so many hours in the day to listen to stuff. I'd listen to it at work doing construction and that would kill two birds with one stone. I would get lots of funny reactions from the people I worked with.

AC- What types of "funny reactions"?
JG- Pretty much anything you can imagine. The funniest thing that happened once was, I was working in a basement listening to a tape, and the owner of the house came down just really freaked out because he could hear the tape from upstairs and he couldn't figure out what it was. He seriously thought that his boiler was acting up.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #2, January 1993. John continued the interview in a second session with Darin De Stefano at a cafe in Oakland, which was featured in the debut issue of Cyanosis. John has since moved on from hosting No Other Radio Network on KPFA. The show however is still on air every Tuesday at midnight. For more information about No Other Radio on KPFA please visit:
http://kpfa.org/nootherradionetwork/ and http://nootherradio.blogspot.com/

More NoMeansNo Live

2006-07-01T11:45:00.000-07:00

NoMeansNo

2006-06-30T09:06:00.000-07:00

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Unpublished photos of NoMeansNo performing live at the River Theater in Guerneville, Ca. NoMeansNo played here in the SF Bay Area often and I took these shots of the band in the late 1980s. Yet again this is another group I never got around to interviewing which I regret. Anyway some of these are excellent action shots of NoMeansNo band members. For more information about the band go check out http://www.nomeanswhatever.com/

More NoMeansNo pics tomorrow. Dig it.

Front Line Assembly

2006-06-29T18:25:00.000-07:00

In 1985, shortly after the Canadian band Skinny Puppy released its second album, their synthesizer and keyboard player Wilhelm Schroeder (Bill Leeb) left the band to pursue his own distinct musical path. He began right away by putting together Front Line Assembly, which at this point is a two-man group consisting of himself and Rhys Fulber. For some time now he has been successful in creating styles of electronic and industrial music that stab and puncture the eardrums, then go for the throat. Front Line Assembly is just that- a "front line" of music that fights with the senses. Bill Leeb also has worked on an arsenal of side projects such as Delerium, Cyber Aktif, and Noise Unit. Bill and Rhys have completed their eighth album for F.L.A., which may be their best effort to date. Recently Bill Leeb was interviewed about the new album Caustic Grip, his near future goals, and his past involvement with Skinny Puppy.

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AC- When did you first decide to experiment with the realm of electronic music? Why do you find it appealing?BL- I started experimenting with instruments about seven years ago. It was mostly appealing to me due to the early industrial bands, like Throbbing Gristle, TestDept., etc.... I really got off on what was happening then.

AC- How did Michael Balch become involved with Front Line Assembly?
BL- Michael Balch became involved after the second cassette release, Total Terror. His girlfriend gave me a tape of his work, and then introduced me to him. I didn't like the music on the tape, but I enjoyed Michael's mental aspect of it.

AC- Was it difficult to get Front Line Assembly off the ground?
BL- Actually, after releasing the second Front Line Assembly cassette, Total Terror, we got a few offers right away to do an LP with various established labels.

AC- Which recording labels were interested in producing the LP?
BL- At that time the interested labels were Third Mind, Antler, KK, Crammed, etc.

AC- Why did you change your name from Wilhelm Schroeder to Bill Leeb?
BL- My real name is Wilhelm Leeb, but when I came to Canada Wilhelm was translated to Bill. Schroeder was a nickname when I was with Skinny Puppy.

AC- You've said before that leaving Skinny Puppy was good for you, because of inflexibilities in the creative process inside the group. Was this primarily the reason why you left?
BL- There just wasn't enough room for all of us to grow, I needed to have more freedom for my ideas, plus I wanted to go in a different direction.

AC- Were there any hard feelings between you and the members of Skinny Puppy for a time after you left?
BL- Yes, there was considerable weirdness, but that is all behind us now.... live and learn.

AC- Do you have any regrets about leaving Skinny Puppy?
BL- There were definite pros and cons in leaving the band. However, the rewards of my accomplishments are far too positive to make me dwell on any of it.

AC- Are you and Michael getting tired of constantly being asked about your involvement with Skinny Puppy, and comparison to that group?
BL- Well, Michael is no longer in the band, so he doesn't have to worry about it any more. For me it's just an old memory.

AC- I was unaware that Michael Balch is no longer in Front Line Assembly. Why and when did he leave?
BL- Last time Michael went on tour with the Revolting Cocks, me and Rhys Fulber started writing Caustic Grip. So when Michael came back there really wasn't anything for him to do. He moved to Chicago to work with Alain Jourgensen. I think he prefers guitar music anyway, so it was all for the best.

AC- One of your more recent side projects, Cyber Aktif, was done in collaboration with Cevin Key- a long time member of Skinny Puppy. How did that project emerge?.
BL- Cyber Aktif came about merely by chance. I had come back from a European tour, and stayed at Cevin Key's for a month.... we joked about doing an LP for a while, and before you know it we did.

AC- Would you tell us a little about each of your side projects and what they mean to you? How have they affected your work on Front Line Assembly?
BL- My only other main side project is Delerium, which will be a continuous project. I really like that part of music, the ambient ethnic, moody music. I feel it has affected Front Line Assembly in a good sense. The more different sounds available, the wider the spectrum for all music.

AC- Is the work you produce for your side projects done solo, or a combination of Rhys and Michael?
BL- Michael worked on two songs from the first Delerium LP, Faces Forms and Illusions.... Rhys has worked on all the others including Morpheus and Syrophenikan.

AC- How does the writing and construction of Front Line Assembly's music begin? Is it always a collaborative effort between the two of you, or do you work in separation on the material?
BL- All the writing we do is a collaboration between myself and Rhys Fulber. We really enjoy working together, but we have no set routine.... experiment, experiment.

AC- How did Rhys become involved with you?
BL- Rhys actually worked with me on Total Terror, so he has worked on F.L.A. since the beginning.

AC- Please tell us about the new album Caustic Grip. How does it compare with your other works?
BL- Caustic Grip surpasses everything we have done to date. There is twice as much going on, without being too much. Our ability to use technology has grown incredibly, and it's really showing with this LP. The LP is more mature, and also more intense.

AC- In the past, Front Line Assembly has been referred to as, "an attack on the media, pointing out disinformation and vulnerability." As F.L.A. grows with time do you feel that description/doctrine still holds true? If so, will you continue to do so?
BL- Our main goal is to make music that pleases us, and to use technology to its uttermost potential. Our "attack" is much wider than just on the media, but it is definitely our attack on everything in general. We will always keep a focus on the real.

AC- What do you consider to be some of your finest moments, or favorite songs?
BL- It is impossible to pick favorite songs because I like about 10 seconds from each song.

AC- What can fans expect from your upcoming tour?
BL- We are very physical and energy is high. Surrounded by an eerie backdrop, weird films, and intense slides.

AC- How do you feel about the use of video in live performances? How many F.L.A. videos exist right now?BL- We like using imagery on stage. We have three videos out now. Body Count, Iceolate, and Virus.

AC- Do your fans in Europe and Canada differ from listeners in the U.S.?
BL- The fans in Europe are a little more reserved (serious). The American fans are real party types, and much crazier. They are a great audience and we all feed off of each other's energy.

AC- How do you feel about the group being though of as "dance music," rather than "industrial music?" Do you like the exposure that F.L.A. is getting from dance floors?
BL- I don't mind people dancing to our music, it can be appreciated in different forms, and we make music for a physical/mental audience.

AC- What are your views about industrial music, and the present state of progression from the "factory scene" to the "dance club" that it's going through right now?
BL- Real industrial music doesn't exist anymore. It was around with early Throbbing Gristle, Test Dept., Nocturnal Emissions, Einsturzende Neubauten, etc. Most of the music that extended from these early bands is just heavy dance music now.

AC- Does the word "shock" relate to F.L.A.? Is there a "shock culture"?
BL- There is a certain amount of "shock" in our early music, which is the reality of what is happening in every day life. What's really shocking is watching the daily news.

AC- Does F.L.A. like to sit about and listen to music, or does it prefer to make music?
BL- We enjoy listening to a wide variety of music.

AC- Are there any plans to re-release the tape of Nerve War, or is it gone for good?
BL- It is gone forever.

AC- Got any really strange stories to tell us about?
BL- Just being in a band is strange.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #1, August 1992.
For more information about Front Line Assembly please visit http://www.metropolis-records.com/artists/?artist=frontlin and http://www.mindphaser.com/

Flat Duo Jets

2006-06-26T09:25:00.000-07:00

Named after an obscure kind of electric guitar and playing stripped down, raw rock, Dexter Romweber and his pal Crow escaped from a broken down shack in Chapel Hill NC to record an album in an old automobile transmission shop. The Flat Duo Jets debut album was recorded on a portable two track machine, which gave it a spontaneous and unrefined feel as it should be. This is rockabilly, the purest form of rock and roll known to mankind, and the Flat Duo Jets have mastered this lost art. They have three albums out now, all of which are a testament to the artists of the 1950's who began and shaped this style of music. Dexter has with great diligence studied rockabilly, and the musicians that made the genre great. This has enabled him to recreate many of these lost classics and bring them to a new generation of listeners. I interviewed Dexter Romweber by mail, shortly before the release of their second album.

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AC- Could you tell us how the Flat Duo Jets got started out, and how you chose the name for the group?
DR- My mom had a little house in the garage called the "box," and after getting stoned one day me and Crow played and it was magic- a different sound. A Flat Duo Jet is a 1950's Gretch Guitar.

AC- What other music or groups do you listen to beside your personal liking of Chopin, Jazz, Rockabilly from the 50's and 60's, and of course The Cramps?
DR- Marc Bolin, and Jackie Gleason.

AC- How did you get into this style of music that the Flat Duo Jets play? Has it taken very long for the band to find its musical identity?
DR- We were born into our identity. Of course a lot of time can be good and bad, but it's my life's work.

AC- I've read that your home life was colorful. Would you tell us a little about the circumstances that led to a moat, a coffin, and not being allowed to eat with the rest of the family?
DR- Spin magazine made up that story, and they're lucky I didn't sue them. My family is very close, and it hurts to think that they would portray it negatively. As far as coffins.... I was a haunted house fanatic.

AC- What is Chapel Hill, North Carolina like?
DR- A lot of isolation, but I was living like a Paris poet compared to a street musician. I might move away for a time.

AC- Crow said in an interview that, "Our music was made to listen to on a shitty stereo." Do you agree with this, and if so, why?
DR- Yes, because usually it's recorded shitty in the studio.

AC- What does the Flat Duo Jets do to "jet-ize" a song?
DR- Forget ourselves and mathematically philosophize.... transcend life.

AC- How long have you been studying rockabilly?
DR- About 6 years.

AC- Is the reference to a "Walking encyclopedia" an accurate description of yourself?
DR- Yes, I'm a walking encyclopedia! BLAH!

AC- What are your plans in the future for yourself and the Flat Duo Jets? Will the band continue to play pure rock or branch out into other music?
DR- Well, our new record has so many more diversified forms... only a few rockabilly cuts. I would like to do a record of 1940s ballads and record a Jimmie Roseri Country/Western acoustic album.

AC- What will the next Flat Duo Jets release be like?
DR- Our second record is Billie Holliday meets David Bowie meets The Stones meets The Who meets Marvin Gaye meets The Flat Duo Jets.

AC- Is the Flat Duo Jets tape still available from Dolphin Records? How can one obtain a copy?
DR- A classic. Some of my favorite stuff. Write to: Monica Romweber PO Box 4 Carrboro, NC 27510. 6 Buxs!

AC- What are some of the more wild things that you've done while playing live?
DR- Took off my clothes, handed over the guitar for someone else to play... got drunk.

AC- How old are you and Crow?
DR- I'm 24 going on 60, and Crow is 24 going on 24.

AC- When will the Flat Duo Jets be going on a tour again?
DR- February hopefully.

AC- Was the tour with The Cramps good for the Jets?
DR- The Cramps tour was very good for us.

AC- Will you go on tour with the Cramps again?
DR- I don't know. We want to headline our own tour.

AC- What do you do for relaxation outside of the band?
DR- I play and write classical music, poetry, and do research on Errol Flynn, Rimbau, and Gaugin.

AC- Who are some of your favorite or most appreciated "old timers," (in reference to the artists of the 50's)?
DR- Jerry Lee, Eddie Cochran, Elvis, The Phantom.

AC- How do you think the Flat Duo Jets would have done back in 1957 or so?
DR- We would have been totally understood.

AC- If you can be objective, how might you describe your music?
DR- It's as mean as a serpent, and gentle as a dove.

AC- How does the Flat Duo Jets feel about the music industry?
DR- I can get what we want.... and freedom is what we want, but you know, sometimes you're like a product. I'm not doing this to get famous. I'm doing it because I love music.

AC- The Flat Duo Jets have been compared time and time again to the "Stray Cats." Is there really a similarity between the Flat Duo Jets and the Stray Cats? I think I must have missed something there.
DR- I can tell you why we're different- we ain't no pretty boys and if I played Eddie Cochran I would never play a heavy metal riff!

AC- Any video material on the way?
DR- Yeah, but I'm not sure when.

AC- What is your definition of a "Crooner"?
DR- Johnny Ray, and I was very sad to hear of his death.

AC- How has the band reacted to the deluge of publicity and acclaim that your debut album has provided?
DR- Well, it's interesting to be recognized on the street, but often I say "No, I'm not Dexter Romweber."

AC- In the future will the band play more hard-edged, raw sounding music?
DR- Harder edged music with torch song leanings. A stew of stuff old and stuff new.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #1, August 1992.

Sharkbait

2006-06-25T12:19:00.000-07:00

Sharkbait is an Industrial/Funk groove rock band from San Francisco. Their live performances are incredibly fun because of all the extra benefits that their self proclaimed Carnival of Steel can provide. It really comes down to performance art mixed with homemade metal and electronic or acoustic percussion sets, raging guitar, and tape manipulations done on the spot. Sharkbait is perhaps one of the most unusual bands I've ever seen live. I got a hefty dose of what Sharkbait is all about April '90 when I attended their first annual Carnival of Steel at Gilman Street in Berkeley, Ca. It was an industrial extravaganza completely organized by Sharkbait. Essentially a "Carnival of Steel" is a live performance people go to and participate in activities like; arm wrestling competitions, games of skill, and the "Crush Cage," where you go to work on your favorite household appliance with a steel pipe. You also get to watch caged women dancers, avant garde film, belly dancing troops, Japanese Taiko drumming, and of course the evening is finished off with an ear-shattering performance by Sharkbait. The group has performed live all over the bay area and since last April has put on a second Carnival of Steel at the Kennel Club in San Francisco. Chris Sea Tea, lead guitarist for Sharkbait, told me stuff about Sharkbait that everyone should know.

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AC- How and when did Sharkbait begin it's demented rise to fame and fortune?
CST- Sharkbait began about five years ago out of frustration. It was started by myself and my partner Charlie Beer. We've been through several incarnations and we began immediately using found sounds and found objects. Chicken of the Sea began playing cassette tapes right away and so immediately our rock and roll was mixed with a sort of new music background. Charlie Beer and I both have backgrounds in 20th century composition, and electronic music which I think one will always find to be an influence over what we are doing.

AC- Have the various members of Sharkbait worked in other groups before this current project? If so, which ones?
CST- We have all been in different bands. Nothing you have ever heard of before, except for our drummer who played with the Swans for a while.

AC- Was the changing of each band member's name necessary' to keep up with the humorous image that Sharkbait presents?
CST- As far as the changing of names, we're not sure why we did it. I think we just like the idea of having different names and it allows us to act outside of our normal personalities. That's the main deal. Our singer Pat (Charlie Beer) is a pretty mellow guy, but in order to be a demented animal on stage he felt like he needed to be called somebody else. We're into humor, although it is something that you will see less and less of as we become more serious.

AC- What exactly is a "Whitey Ho"?
CST- Whitey Ho is the M. C. Whitey Ho and he is a crushing mother fucker. MC Whitey Ho had never been in a band before, actually he's never even played an instrument before. His real name is John White, and he was a photographer shooting Sharkbait. We needed percussionists and he came to an audition. He destroyed everything in the room that was made out of metal. We signed him up and he's been with the band ever since. MC Whitey Ho is his fantasy name for the crushing DJ that he thought he'd never get a chance to be. His brother is now our damage and fire control officer, Bobby Ho. so that's what an MC Whitey Ho is. MC is metal crusher by the way, not master of ceremonies. We use hammer handles to play 55 gallon drums. You gotta use those 16 inch hammer handles. They have to be just right. MC Whitey Ho likes the 14 inch ones though because they're faster.

AC- How were the various percussion instruments created?
CST- We began recording on a four track deck in a shack behind Pat's apartment in Oakland and there was some junk left behind by the previous tenant, namely a large ventilator shaft. During a session we banged on it, placed a microphone on it, and things have expanded from there. "The Tree" essentially is found objects with contact microphones processed through digital effects. Whitey Ho's gear is also made up of found objects. They include brake drums, springs, 55 gallon drums, and parts we've just found around our industrial warehouse practice space. He's basically an artist. He has an artists' sensibility, and if you're familiar with art music at all, found objects are a major part of it. Plus Whitey Ho just likes to be loud and obnoxious and those are some of the loudest things you can find.

AC- What are some of Sharkbait's inspirations?
CST- I'd say our number one inspiration is talk of the town, and politics or events of the day. Over the past few years our shows have always been highlighted by current events. Right now we are performing a piece called "War Crush-We Must Demonstrate," and it's about the heinous effects and uses of chemical warfare related directly to Iraq. We're also influenced by Einsturzende Neubauten, Test Dept., Led Zepplin, Heavy Metal, Rap, and our top percussion influence is Japanese Taiko drumming. Namely the troop run by Seiichi Tanaka, our mentor and generally God-like kinda guy. Our new show is based upon this Industrial/Taiko deal.

AC- What are some of Sharkbait's goals for the near future?
CST- We are currently working on our second album, Blow Torch Face Lift. There's a new tape out called, "E-vil Mind Crush: The Carnival of Steel." Our new album will be recorded here in San Francisco and feature Seiichi Tanaka. We plan to release it during the second week of January under the Primitech label/Gladys Pearce Records. We're going on tour in the fall, hopefully the whole country in spring, and maybe over to Europe next summer.

AC- Is Sharkbait solely responsible for the creation of the "Carnival of Steel" live shows?
CST- Sharkbait started the Carnival of Steel because we were just bored, trying to find bands to play with and having clubs not want to put us on bills with other groups, so we thought that if we had control over the entire environment then there's no worries. That's what it's all about. Where else would you have Taiko music and crushing rock brought together in the same room with belly dancers and arm wrestling, films, and martial arts? It's because we have this thing that we always say to each other, "If you want something done right then you have to do it yourself." Actually, more than that, if you want it done at all you've got to do it yourself. Not even if you want it done right and this town is full of flaky people, so if we're going to have a good time it'll be on our own. Sharkbait is a live group. We have found that in recording we tend to break everything down too small and get too involved in details and not capture the excitement and spontaneity of our live shows. We're a live band and our new record should capture and improve on our sound and make it a little more listenable.

AC- Has performing live been difficult for Sharkbait?
CST- Performing live is definitely not difficult for Sharkbait. In fact our other group Sharkmeat is an improvisational band that changes everything from all percussion to a mix of everything. Most of it is improvised right at the show on stage. We come up with the words beforehand and just go for it. We love to play, and we like to put on a big show.

AC- Would you tell us a little about Charlie Beer's live tape manipulations?
CST- Charlie Beer takes a quarter inch reel to reel tapedeck and drags the tape across the heads for a "scratching-like" thing. We're into fucking with anything that's normal like taking a piece of metal, putting a mic on it and beating on it. Beating on things, lighting things on fire, processing our voices. We are the most crushing band in the world. Everywhere we go, we search around for scrap metal to beat on and the thing that really gets us off is a nice, fresh piece of sheet metal that is virgin.

AC- During some of your live performances, video footage is used. How do you go about selecting video material for live shows?
CST- We don't use too much video footage actually. We do use film. An auxiliary member to Sharkbait... he calls himself "Captain of the B Team" and he's killer. The original trash groove slut. He's a percussionist and all around cool musician. He uses found and home shot film. He also does live film "scratching." He's got a special projector that makes the film walk backwards and forwards.

AC- Does Sharkbait have any videos?
CST- We made a video of our song "Feel Steel" which is going to be released on a compilation album in October called "From the Machine" on Index Records.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #1, August 1992.

The Doctrines Of Tom Furgas

2006-06-24T13:47:00.000-07:00

Cassettes are his business. Music his life. Tom Furgas, a cassette-culture artist who resides in Ohio, relentlessly creates unique atmospheres with a passion for stabbing pop culture in the eye. Unscathed by the power of major record labels and the never ending tides of easily forgotten top 40 hits, Tom remains steadfast in his duty to make music. He is the creator of a large catalog of solo material, collaborative projects, and one of a kind tapes. All of his work that has come my way has been refreshing and spontaneous. He has created many works on cassette which he refers to as OneOfAKind. Tom's idea is imaginative. Produce an original piece of music of which only one copy exists and then mail it to someone, somewhere far away. I was intrigued by this concept and wanted to know more about Tom's work. I had the opportunity to interview Mr. Furgas and he graciously included a personal Manifesto. His Manifesto sets the stage for understanding the man behind the music.

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Item I - Art is not for money, art is for life. Artists must price their goods and services to match the lowest income levels, not the highest, and to be willing to provide these goods and services free of charge when possible (for the artist) or necessary (for the consumer).

Item II - We declare that 90% or better of all commercial music (both advertising and entertainment) is as nourishing as toxic waste and is to be avoided, ridiculed, appropriated (for distortive purposes) and mocked at all costs. Consumers who are unaware of the damaging effects of most commercial music must be freely educated of their error by any means (spoken dialog, free alternative music gifts, suggestions for further listening and reading) and we deem this educative process as a vital public service to help raise the floundering intellectual and cultural milieu that currently exists in the 1990s.

Item III - Television has been inexorably distorted from its original function of disseminator of culture and information to a capitalist tool geared to create frustration and anger in the general populace by wafting the scent of luxury items and self-servicing lifestyles under the noses of consumer-idiots who can ill afford to possess them. Therefore we say television (as with most commercial music) must be avoided, ridiculed, appropriated (for distortive purposes), and mocked at all costs.

Item IV - True art is not easy to make or absorb, nor should it ever be. The mind is the same as any muscle as it must be exercised regularly to avoid atrophy and subsequent loss. Vigorous cognitive work-outs cannot be had at your local commercial music outlet: seek out difficult music from difficult sources to make the most of your mental aerobics.

Item V - Don't let the bastards get you down. Use any available local free media in your area (bulletin boards, public access radio/TV, restroom walls, whatever) to laugh in their faces.

Item VI - We face horrendous global collapse in all sectors of life (financial, ecological, sociological, medical, cultural) during the next decade and it now behooves us to fight against these trends by producing the highest quality art possible, since art is the loftiest achievement of our species and to quote Zappa, "Music is the best."

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AC- Please tell me about your musical background (schooling, interests), and when you first started composing your own material.
TF- I became interested in music around age 5 when I attended kindergarten and the teacher would play the piano for our singalongs. I loved watching her play and my parents took note of my interest. I began piano lessons with a wonderful old lady named Mrs. Schwartz. I didn't really think to try my hand at composing until I was 12. That's when I began to jot down little ditties in a spiral bound music book. My first serious compositions date from 1973. I began a large collection of short piano pieces after I started formal academic studies at Youngstown State University. These studies only lasted 2 quarters, but by that time I had plenty of incentive and taste for composition.

AC- What other groups or collaborations have you been involved with besides your solo work?
TF- Well, there have been numerous collaborations by mail with Richard Franecki, Ken Clinger, Zan Hoffman, Dino Dimuro, Mark Hanley, John Oswald, etc. etc. There is direct involvement with my band Courtesy Patrol (myself with Bill Lehman, Rick Arkwright, Barrett Sinclair), and we've had a number of auxiliary members. Collaborating is exciting in as much as I get chances to explore other facets of my musical personality that I normally would not.

AC- How does one go about creating music through a collaboration by mail? Isn't that more difficult to do, than by doing it in person?
TF- Actually, it's very simple. Either I send a tape of material to a collaborator to add to, manipulate, rearrange, whatever, or they send a tape of material to me. We then work with the other's material, rather like it's plastic, malleable material that can be modified, added to, etc. Technically, if I get a tape from someone I'll dub it onto my four track (perhaps not in the order the material originally is) and then modify it if necessary (EQ, effects, reverb, noise gate), then add to it by overdubbing extra parts. From there it's mastered while being mixed down, sometimes edited in the same process. Really, it's easier to do than in person. With the collaborator there in person, a lot of time is usually taken up with discussions and bad takes.

AC- Do you consider your work to be Musique Concrete?
TF- Actually, no. Though I have experimented with that genre as well as used ideas from it in my other work.

AC- In your opinion, what is Musique Concrete, and how do you define it?
TF- I'd define Musique Concrete as the construction of musical compositions using sounds from any sources (including but not limited to traditionally non-musical sources such as home appliances, non-singing voices, water, fire, etc.) which are subjected to various manipulations like tape speed change, reversals, filtering and editing. To me, the traditional French school of Musique Concrete dating from the 1950's is the basis for a lot of our current experimental music, if only due to the liberating nature of its materials and concepts.

AC- I have always thought of Musique Concrete as the birth of Industrial music. Maybe even Industrial music in its purest form. Do you think that there are strong links between these two genres of music, enough for one of them to have evolved into the other over such a length of time?
TF- Yes, I'd say so. Considering that both Industrial and Musique Concrete use non-traditional sound sources and manipulations thereof. Now, I'm not sure if, say, Throbbing Gristle ever listened to any Musique Concrete as such, but I'm sure some of the early Industrial bands had to have some awareness of Musique Concrete to attempt the things they've done.

AC- Please compare/contrast Industrial vs. Musique Concrete. What do you think some of the differences are between them?
TF- Well, of course you have to remember that Musique Concrete began as a purely aesthetic experiment, a desire to create a new kind of music using a new tool which at that time was the tape recorder. They didn't have any kind of ideological program unless you contrast the Paris school (pure Musique Concrete, no electronic sources) and the Koln school (electronics almost exclusively). Now, with Industrial music the artists involved were aiming at an expression of Industrial (actually post-industrial) angst, and using the means pioneered by Musique Concrete to achieve that end.

AC- How have you tried to incorporate Musique Concrete into your own work?
TF- I have often used the techniques of Musique Concrete on my tapes, though it's never been my central concern. Largely it has been done as collage techniques with some occasional manipulation as well. "Catenative Assemblage" was pure Musique Concrete, the enduration tape "MCMXC" uses lots of manipulations (in this case with specifically requested submissions from the other contributors). Lately though, I've used very little Musique Concrete as I've been exclusively using the Yamaha SY-55 workstation as my only sound source.

AC- Do you listen to much Industrial music?
TF- Not really, unless you would describe Zan Hoffman or Minoy as "Industrial."

AC- What do you consider to be "Industrial" music today?
TF- Industrial could probably be any music that is harsh or uncompromisingly noisy, today. The originators of Industrial are either long gone or have mutated (like Einstruzende Neubauten) in such ways that they really no longer fit the genre, strictly.

AC- How and when did you first come in contact with Musique Concrete?
TF- Back in 1973 I was attending YSU and they had a music library at the Dana school of music. I found a copy of an LP called "Musique Concrete" on Vox records and listened to it and was fascinated.

AC- Who are some of your favorite Musique Concrete composers, and what do they mean to you creatively?TF- Favorites? I don't know... Todd Dockstader, Schaeffer, Roland Kayn, Stockhausen, and Cage. All of them have done excellent and exciting work in that field when it was still fresh and vital. Not much being done in that field today except by home tapers, notably Aaron Windsor, John Oswald, and a few others. Minoy and Zan Hoffman could be placed in that category as well as the Industrial area.

AC- Are they a source of inspiration for your own work?
TF- Inspiration? Anything and everything inspires me to some degree or another. Depends on my focus at the time.

AC- I'm at a loss for words to ask this of you, but what is it that you try to construct with your music?
TF- Music is nothing less than the decoration of time. As such, I feel an awesome responsibility to decorate time wisely, to give that time as much range and depth as possible. Time decorated poorly is time wasted. Thus, I continually ask myself about the validity and importance of the music I'm working on at any given time. Does it have the necessary elements of good time decor? Structure, balance, cohesion, tension-and-release, poetry, drama; all these factors must be sorted, weighed, examined, and acted upon. Music is too often taken so lightly these days, and that's akin to taking time lightly, and it must never be: time is all we have!

AC- Why do you think music is being taken lightly today?
TF- Too many people... today music is largely taken for granted, it's just so much wallpaper, a nice background noise. Most people have lost touch with the spiritual essence of music, indeed with the spiritual essences of all things, due to their amazing self-centered striving towards sensual pleasures and materialistic emblems of success. It's the same reason why libraries and art galleries have lots of elbow room at any given time, why poetry never attains best-seller status, why great composers have to prostitute themselves teaching at universities to make a living.

AC- What else do you seek through music?
TF- Aside from the supreme importance of time decoration, music must also lift us out of time as well. To transport us to a timeless inner space where we can seek out harmony from all the chaos that swirls about us. Music has that ability, though sadly many people are too busy to seek out that level of awareness. Musicians must provide music on such a level of sublimity that it can encourage people to do so.

AC- One of the things that I found to be very interesting about you, is the fact that you make OneOf AKind tapes of original work and just send them off through the mail. Are those tapes so different from your other material that they deem being sent away?
TF- Music is the most important activity I have, and I work at it every day. As such I find that I could easily create two or three tapes per week. But to add all those tapes to my general release catalog would quickly overburden my resources as well as add too much to the enormous number of recordings available all over the world, not only my own, but all others as well. The OneOfAKind tapes are a way of getting some of my music out without worrying about how many people will hear it. One listener, an audience of one, is enough. I like the idea of OneOfAKind tapes as unique art objects, not from an elitist standpoint, but as a way of enhancing the preciousness of the art-object. OneOfAKind tapes also allow me to feel completely free from obligations of tailoring music for a wide audience. Actually, the whole cassette culture allows for this, but OneOfAKind tapes are even more of a refinement.

AC- What do you think of "cassette culture" as a whole?
TF- Aside from freeing us from the desires and obligations of garnering a mass market it (cassette culture) allows everyone to create exactly what they want, how, when, and where they want. I'm thrilled to be an active part of it; it provides me (and other musicians like me) an outlet we normally would never have. Interest in it is growing daily. We avoid the corruptions and compromises of the music business and create a pure, unadulterated kind of music straight from the heart and mind. A new, electronic, kind of folk music as it were... people music, not money music.

AC- Have you actively pursued getting your work signed to a record label?
TF- Like any artist I naturally seek out as large an audience as possible even though I am aware that an audience of one is sufficient to communicate (or at least attempt it). I did record and press a 7" EP record as a promotional tool and sent it aggressively to as many labels as possible, with no response though. I'd have no problem with a big label releasing my music, but it would have to be my music as it is, and I would have to have complete control over its presentation. No large record label would be willing to give me that much control, I think. The state of record labels today is appalling; strictly bottom line profits. In the 60's and 70's labels were willing to experiment and lots of great alternative music was available then. Many of those artists wouldn't have a prayer today.

AC- Maybe one of those reasons large record labels won't experiment anymore is because they learned from that time period, that experiments don't sell.
TF- It sells, but why should record companies invest time and money in something that may only break even or make a small profit when they all want to be big enough (like Sony) to be able to pay someone like Michael Jackson a billion dollars (no exaggeration, folks!) to make a few records and videos with no real lasting value, only immediate surface appeal?

AC- A long time ago I think you told me you didn't send promos out anymore, because people wouldn't like the material you sent, or you'd get bad reviews. Has that changed for you?
TF- It's not that they wouldn't like it, it's that they wouldn't understand it. Recently I sent 2 tapes to Factsheet Five for review, and one of the two was reviewed by someone without the slightest understanding of what I attempted. I will still occasionally send tapes out for review, but not as many or as often as I once did.

AC- What do you expect from your listeners, on a minimum level, for them to understand or perceive your material as you do?
TF- A little honest concentration should do it. If they listen while reading a magazine or cleaning the house they can't hope to absorb more than the immediate surface. That goes for any music, not just mine.

AC- What are some of the new things you have been working on?
TF- I seem to be most interested in contemporary "classical" styles and have been working on using my Yamaha SY-55 as an orchestra-in-a-box, creating chamber and orchestral works in the style of the avant-garde of the 50's and 60's, which is an area I feel was never sufficiently explored before it was generally abandoned in favor of minimalism (which I like also). I'm also still doing collaborations, currently with Courtesy Patrol (garage-rock) and John M. Rennet (poetry with music).

AC- How has your work been growing over the last few years?
TF- Well, I'm always trying to refine my ideas in one area while seeking out new territory for other ideas. It's an ongoing process and will continue as long as I can draw breath.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #1, August 1992.

Jello Biafra @ SSU

2006-06-15T00:12:00.000-07:00

Jello Biafra giving a spoken word performance at Sonoma State University, Rohnert Park, Ca. I'm usually pretty good about keeping my ticket stubs from shows and events, but I don't seem to have the ticket stub from Jello's show anymore. I don't remember how long ago this show took place so I'm going to say it must have been early 1990s and leave it at that. Jello was cool with having photos shot with the flashbulb going off practically right in his face. He didn't appear to be bothered by it at all so I kept on snapping away. Crouching down at the edge of the stage I waited for Jello to walk nearby and then take a shot or two. He was so close he could have easily kicked me in the teeth. Black and white film lends a timeless quality to whatever you're photographing, and in this case with Jello that definitely holds true.

Warlock Pinchers

2006-06-14T00:44:00.000-07:00

From the desk of: WARLOCK PINCHERS
10-27-90
Dear Sir or Madam:

I am sorry that the delay of mail response is so unruly, and we will try to do better in the future with products and information. I do all of the correspondence myself and it has been out of control lately.

Thanks for your support,

Karen

P.S. Send an interview and we'll fill it out...

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And so it began. A few days before Halloween 1990, I sealed my own fate by attempting to obtain an interview with the Warlock Pinchers. Following the 1989 release of "Deadly Kung Fu Action" the Warlock Pinchers had caught my attention. A few weeks after each batch of interview questions was sent out to the band, I received packages containing tickets to see their upcoming shows in Colorado, posters, Pinchers merchandise catalogs, photos of the band performing live, an official Warlock Pinchers bookmark, and even an autographed pic of Mindy and Sindy, Satan's Cheerleaders. The Warlock Pinchers were truly generous.

I marveled at the huge variety of Pinchers products they had available. Apparently the band was a marketing force to be reckoned with. They had shirts, stickers, yo-yos, patches, quartz watches (official time of Satan), posters, sweatshirts, keychains, BIC lighters, toy cars, baseball caps, golf tees, skateboards, and for one dollar you could even get an autographed photo of a chicken with a roll in it's butt. The Warlock Pinchers also offered their own laser light show called "Laser Pinchers." I was in awe of these guys. Months later, the requested interview was complete. The Warlock Pinchers are from Denver, Colorado and formed as a group to spite other bands in their local area. They also made it a point to heckle weak pop starts like Tiffany and Morrissey.

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The WARLOCK PINCHERS are- King Scratchie, 3 Kord Salad King, Admiral, EE Rok, and Karen Carpenter.

AC- Please tell us a little about each of your musical backgrounds.
KS- No musical background. I listen mainly to rap (Public Enemy, BDP, Special Ed, PoorRighteous Teachers, Ice Cube), and dancehall reggae (Tiger, Shinehead, Tippa Irie, Lt. Stitchie).
3KSK- I've been in several obscure bands. Mr. Butler Died Here - vocals/keyboards, Minus Bill -vocals/keyboards, and Treble King -everything.
Admiral- My only other band was Smedley's Van. I hate all bands except for Gary Numan.
EE Rok- About 8 years ago I was in Urinary Tract Infection.
Karen- No musical background. I only listen to Slayer and Tiffany.

AC- What were the events that resulted in the forming of the Warlock Pinchers as a band?
KS- Me and 3KSK started the band because we hated every local band and we wanted to piss them and their fans off.

AC- How did you get your band name?
KS- When we started as a band, one of the biggest bands in Denver was called "Raw Chip Lockers." We hated them so we stole one of their flyers and rearranged their name so it said "Warlock Pinchers."

AC- What seems to be the focus of the Warlock Pinchers' music and ideas?
KS- The music really has no focus, actually. It just comes together naturally at practice. The focus of the ideas is basically that the music is stupid. I write lyrics about anything I happen to be thinking of at any particular time- whether it be totally slanderous, an inside joke, or politically motivated. It doesn't matter.

AC- What is important to the various members of the Warlock Pinchers?
KS- The only thing that we all deem important is the fact that all racists are complete idiots.

AC- Please tell us about your dealings with Crispin Glover. Why doesn't he show up to practice and record with the band?
KS- We never met Crispin Glover. It's just a big inside joke about Hollywood. Would you show up to practice with complete strangers that call you at all hours of the night?

AC- If the Pinchers had their choice of any famous persons to actually draft into the group, who would they be? KS- Ernest Borgnine.

AC- Could you tell us about the Pinchers experience at the Denver University which the group was banned from ever playing live there again?
KS- We're banned from C.U. (Home of the National Champion Buffs), not D.U. the whole story is too long to get into here.

AC- Are the Warlock Pinchers vindictive and out for blood when somebody does the band a wrongdoing (like that college), or do the Pinchers turn the other cheek and forget about it?
KS- Damn right, we're out for blood. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Never turn the other cheek.

AC- Please tell us about some of the more unusual things that have happened to the various band members since the onset of the group.
KS- At one of our first shows, we were maced. We've been pelted with change by an angry Red Hot Chili Peppers audience who didn't like my making fun of U2. I've been attacked by a skinhead onstage for painting "Fuck Racism" on my chest. Those are our best experiences because it gives me good lyrical ideas.

AC- Do you have any more recorded material available beside Deadly Kung Fu Action?
KS- Yes, Pinch a Loaf LP (out of print), Morrissey Rides a Cockhorse 4 song EP (Europe), and the Circusized Peanuts LP due out in June.

AC- What will your "Circusized Peanuts" LP be like?
KS- It's got some stupid stuff and some more serious stuff. It's a lot different from our other stuff because of the way the lyrics were written. With the other stuff it was me and Andrew who were writing all the lyrics. We'd write them in 10 minutes, but now we don't really hang out together so I spend more time writing the lyrics. A lot of them are just my personal feelings and viewpoints, or anything that's coming from my head. I guess you'd have to listen to it to describe the music. Who knows what we'll sound like in the future. It is the future, after all.

AC- Where did you come up with the name for the new album?
KS- We were just throwing words around, having a little fun. I was thinking of calling it "Sons of Circus Peanuts" because I love circus peanuts, and this guy was there and he was like, "What? Circusized Peanuts!" and that's what happened.

AC- Have you had much success with your marketing of Warlock Pinchers products and accessories?
Karen- Much success.

AC- What will some of the new products be?
Karen- Yo-Yos, glow in the dark keychains, beach towels, lighters, shirts, and more!

AC- Humor seems to be a big influence on your material. How has humor effected your music?
KS- Anyone with no sense of humor is a bastard. The humor on Deadly Kung Fu Action is all inside jokes- so we should be the only ones who get it. We're not comedians. We were trying to amuse ourselves- not other people.

AC- What do you think the Pinchers would be like without humor?
KS- I think Warlock Pinchers without humor would be Morrissey.

AC- Deadly Kung Fu Action contained a lot of blatant but humorous references to Satanism. Was this a direct result of people accusing the Warlock Pinchers of being Satanists?
KS- Yeah, some people called us Satanic. We thought that was kind of humorous because we're all Atheists, so we don't believe in Satan. So we exploited it and blew it way out of proportion.

AC- What do the Pinchers think of Christianity?
KS- I hate all organized religions, though I do support their original meanings. It's just that when a bunch of fools control a religion, it sours the original meaning. I despise today's meaning of Christianity so I don't trust today's Christians, and I enjoy making fun of them. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

AC- Do you think that Kung Fu movies have socially redeeming qualities about them?
KS- Kung Fu was last year's news.

AC- On the album, Deadly Kung Fu Action, Morrissey is the target for some hectic sarcasm and criticism. I'd like to know if the Pinchers have sent a copy of the song "Morrissey Rides a Cockhorse" to Morrissey. In any case, has that song been drawing critical fire towards the Pinchers from Smiths fans?
KS- We didn't send Morrissey a copy 'cos we were afraid he'd cry or kill himself. Maybe we should have sent him a copy, since Judas Priest was acquitted. Yeah, most Smiths fans don't like that song or us. In Denver though, there have been a lot of Smiths records in used record stores lately. I don't see what's so bad about that song. It's just an opinionated attack on one person. We never said people had to agree with us.

AC- As with Morrissey, you made a satirical attack on Tiffany. Why?
KS- We were just having fun. We always used to finish doing a show with a cover. With "I Think We're Tiffany" we would always try to play it as long as possible to make people leave, but it never really worked. So, we decided to record it as long as possible. When you do a cover of a song like that you can't really rap. You just have to sing badly.

AC- How do the Warlock Pinchers view the music industry as a whole?
KS- The music industry is a joke, because music is a joke.

AC- What would the Pinchers say to a big name record label if they wanted to sign up the band?
KS- I'd say "cool" 'cos we're not stupid. You just have to realize that big labels (and small labels) are out for money. I don't think music is an art- at every level it's still a business. A big label just has more distribution.

AC- Why do you feel that music is a business rather than an art?
KS- Well, it's because the music companies own everything. From the studios to the pressing to everything that has to do with every kind of music. In order to actually go out and be a real band you have to make money for somebody. It's pimping yourself out in one way or another, and whether that's good or bad I don't know. I kinda like it.

AC- If music is a business, what do you consider yourself to be? Are you a business man?
KS- I just see myself as someone with a microphone letting off steam. Saying whatever the hell I want to say, and rap I think is the best way to do that. You can do some kind of social commentary, you can do a political speech, you can do anything. To me it's more emotional than anything else. People don't sing their feelings no matter what Morrissey wants to say.

AC- So you feel that rap allows you more freedom?
KS- Yeah. You can fit a lot more words into a song, and you can say whatever you want to say. Whatever you do talking, you can do rapping.

AC- You recently did an interview with Maximum Rock n Roll. Was the group happy with the way it came out in print, or no? Does that interview accurately reflect the Warlock Pinchers' image?
KS- I'm just upset that we didn't really know we were doing an interview. We were just talking with a guy who happened by recording us. It was no image. On the plus side, we did get a couple of lies in print. It was really a better conversation than an interview.

AC- Also, in that interview the band briefly discussed homophobia, but was unclear on their opinions about the subject. Are the Warlock Pinchers homophobic?
KS- Warlock Pinchers are not homophobic. That whole thing came about from the line "ball-flapping dicksucker" in "Morrissey Rides a Cockhorse." First of all, I meant that he flaps his own balls. Secondly, anything I don't like "sucks a dick." If the weather is cold, I say the weather sucks a dick. I don't like Morrissey, so I say he sucks a dick. It's more of an expression of contempt than anything else. Thirdly, not much else rhymes with "motherfucker."

AC- What do the Pinchers think of people who are homophobic?
KS- I'm all for minority rights, women's rights, gay rights, etc. Everybody is human and deserves basic rights. Gays deserve not to be discriminated against. Basically, every homophobic person is a ball-flapping dicksucker.

AC- How did the Pinchers get their own Satanic cheerleaders?
Karen- We created cheerleaders so bored people would have something to watch.

AC- What do the Warlock Pinchers consider to be cool and uncool?
Karen- Cheerleaders are out, Clowns are in.

AC- What are your favorite cartoons?
KS- Bullwinkle, Underdog, and the Simpsons.
Karen- Jem and the Holograms.

AC- How did your January 4-5, 1991 performances at Gilman St. in Berkeley go?
KS- We had a great show at Gilman St., but we got kind of ripped off 'cos they claimed we were "not a touring band." They said we were in San Francisco to record so in effect we were a local band for 2 weeks. We played shows out in San Francisco in order to pay for our gas, not lavish hotel rooms- that's what Salt Lake shows are for. The sound at the Women's Building (in S.F.) was terrible. I didn't like that show, though the money did kind of make up for Gilman. I just wish that we had gotten as much as the other opening bands at Gilman. Most people were there to see L7, so I have no beef about them getting most of the money.

AC- So what's the deal with the almost-identical logos of the Oakland Raiders and the Warlock Pinchers? Has the band been hassled by the NFL about it?
Karen- No.

AC- Anything else? If so, it goes here.
KS- I ate a moth for 50 cents.
Karen- I look better in a skirt than most girls- I think they resent me for that.

Chop Shop - Humming The Sweet Quiver

2006-06-13T12:13:00.000-07:00

Chop Shop is an ongoing electronic performance art project founded by Scot Konzelmann. Scot has successfully mixed physical art with what I have come to call "Atmospheric Industrial Music," a type of formless low frequency sound bordering on White Noise yet hypnotic at the same time to the listener's ears. Fascinated by Scot's interesting work I contacted him to learn more about his unusual speaker constructions. Photography by R. Marsters and F.B.

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AC- What were some of the things that contributed to the starting of Chop Shop?
SK- Essentially, Chop Shop was started as a vehicle to purvey pure sound experiences, hammered into a distinct focus. Leading to this was the desire to, in effect, turn up the volume on the hum of the world, selectively crawling inside particular sounds. An introduction to RRRon Lessard led to my first cassette activity, "Primitive Power/Positive Force" in 1987.

AC- How did you get the name for this experiment, and what does the name represent or mean to you?
SK- Chop Shop is common slang- referring to clandestine garage operations that disguise or modify stolen vehicles. This seemed to me appropriate; taking something found and sometimes familiar... modification, heavy handed alteration... "new" form. Once my work with the speaker constructions began, the moniker took on further, more direct connotations.

AC- When you first began Chop Shop, was your original intent focused on speaker construction as performance art pieces, or were you more interested in musical construction?
SK- Well, the speaker constructions came later. Initially, Chop Shop was a tape project.

AC- Do you consider yourself to be a performance artist or a musician?
SK- Neither. "Sound Artist" is the term that I am usually saddled with, which seems a bit more applicable. As I see it, my activities relate more an attitude of "music of decay..." if music must be used as a description. I was once dubbed a "noise mechanic," which I like. Conveys the Frankenstein approach...

AC- Please tell us of your previous musical involvement prior to Chop Shop.
SK- Rather varied, suffice it to say that Chop Shop is where I have found my niche. While I will admit some formal training in "conventional" musics and recording techniques, I maintain, at a root, a strong reliance upon instinct.

AC- Your speaker constructions seem to be somewhat complex. How did you begin to build them, and did you have any electronics training which helped you to accomplish this?
SK- Actually, a simple response: to instill a more interesting listen, I addressed the loudspeaker... taking a source of playback information and altering both it's function, and appearance. Giving the sound a body, so to speak. The speaker constructions do apply an understanding of acoustical function, however, adherence to any correctness is, for the most part, cast aside. The origins of this work began with a beautiful iron plate from an old furnace, featuring an 8" circular indentation. The visual element was immediately solid; I drilled out and mounted a speaker to the plate and proceeded to pump frequencies through it, determining how it reacted. Electronics training? All I did was pick up a soldering iron.

AC- In a previous interview you made the statement, "Physical sounds through visible sources." Does this accurately describe your music?
SK- Absolutely, this remains a strong description.

AC- How would you describe your sound constructions if the above statement would not apply?
SK- An attempt to establish a more direct listening experience.

AC- When you perform live I assume you would only use your speakers to convey the sound.
SK- There is no live performance, in the conventional aspect. My work is presented primarily in installation format and recordings with supportive documentation. In a way, the speaker constructions were developed to become the "performers..." for I have little interest in manipulating tape recorders in front of an audience.

AC- How often do you record new sound constructions? What is involved in this process?
SK- Whenever my equipment, and I, are working in reasonable order. Involves formation of a distinct sound or combination of sounds, determining approach, and pushing it until it works, or the equipment is rendered inoperable.

AC- When you work to create new sound material, do you often build new speakers specifically for that sound material?
SK- Ideally, the speaker constructions are developed in a dialog with the sound materials, but things do not always mesh that neatly, or at the same time. Ultimately comes down to what works, what fits the purpose. While each speaker construction in singular, final form has a specific sound program, I will often run alternative programs to allow for more interactive play between constructions in an installation format. This leads to role assignments in titled installations; for example, in "Speed, Aggression, Violence and Desire" each speaker construction was given a program that embodied its capabilities... in keeping with its assigned part.

AC- There seems to be a two-fold creative process that must be difficult to work with at times. You construct sound, and you construct objects. Do you find yourself going back and forth from sound to objects frequently, or do you attempt to work on both aspects of Chop Shop simultaneously?
SK- It is a juggle. Again, ideally the work is pulled together simultaneously, but is done in stages...developing sound materials, assembling the speaker construction, a period of joining the two, recording and modifying the results.

AC- What are some of the new sound/speaker constructions you are working on at this time, and what do we have to look forward to from Chop Shop?
SK- Nothing definite. Always have piles of scrap on the workbench, projects in various stages. Since the RRR "Steel Plate" package took so long for me to get together, I am now focusing upon showing the constructions-while I consider what the next recorded release will be.

AC- I've read that you had some of your equipment stolen early on in Chop Shop's existence. Would you please tell us about the circumstances that surrounded this unfortunate experience and how you overcame it?
SK- The loss led to a definite change in approach, as financially I was unable to replace the items taken with ones of comparable quality. The result was to use whatever I could get my hands on, and push it into the ground... giving my recordings a particular edgy, precarious quality.

AC- When you are designing your speakers,do you alter the construction of the speaker mechanisms themselves to distort the sounds further, or do you simply concentrate your efforts on the outer construction?
SK- A bit of both, depends upon the application/desired result. While the speaker's "new" housing comprises a distinct quality of function, I may damage or manipulate the speaker unit itself. The sound material itself can be "tailored" for reproduction through each individual construction, using equalization to compensate or exaggerate the particular properties of each.

AC- Where do you find material to build your speakers with, and what types of material do you like to use for the building of new speaker housings?
SK- Scrapyards, abandoned mills, construction sites, roadside... I look for odd pieces with the potential to hold, or support a speaker in an interesting assemblage.

AC- You've mentioned speaker installations frequently. Could you elaborate to what an installation consists of, and how it is used?
SK- Installations featuring the speaker constructions vary, some incorporate use of several, say up to 6; or can consist of a single piece- depends upon the particulars of the situation. A recent show at Generator in NYC (somewhat dormant at the moment) Titled "Velocity and Vibration" featured 5 speaker constructions. One piece ran constantly at a low level while 4 others ran through a shifting "Program" each sound and speaker construction presenting itself individually, occassionally all stating a "common thread," then a breaking of order, interrupting, fighting- all in all a fifteen minute cycle, endlessly repeating in a medium sized room. The sonic content was all based upon sounds which to me typified movement, speed, and action- hence the title. Use? A direct experience for the adventurous listener...

AC- What have been some of your favorite speaker constructions?
SK- Personal favorite is also the first... Furnace Plate C1679. I have utilized this particular construction in many situations, and have blown the speaker several times; with each re-fitting the piece changes. Currently features a firm, two-way Bose System, that has held up under extreme duress...

AC- While you may be considering what the next release by Chop Shop might be, can you give us any hints as to what is on the drawing board?
SK- At present, I am placing myself on the workbench, trying to hammer out solutions to some nasty situations... aside from that, crawling around scrapyards, getting my hands good and dirty, fortifying my tape recorders for the duress of the next projects, and keeping my ears open.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #2, January 1993.

Chop Shop

2006-06-13T12:06:00.000-07:00

Functional speaker constructions by Scot Konzelmann of Chop Shop. Photography by F.B. and R. Marsters.

Silent Records

2006-06-12T00:22:00.000-07:00

Recently Antocularis had the opportunity to interview Kim Cascone, president of Silent Records in San Francisco. Silent is a dynamic record label and mail order service which Kim started out in the mid-eighties to serve the niche crowd of underground Industrial and electronic experimental music. Kim discussed many aspects of the business and how he operates a company of this caliber.

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AC- How did you get Silent Records started?
KC- Silent Records started in 1986 and it was an outgrowth of just putting out records by PGR. The first record by PGR was the thing that funded Silent Records. It did pretty well so we just took all the profits and the money made off the first PGR record and put it into a company that was going to release records of an experimental and Industrial nature. The first record that we released was a record by The Haters called "In The Shade Of Fire" and then after that there was Architect's Office and Organum, which was a split LP with Eddie Prevo, and then the company went on hold for about a year. Then we started up again in '89.

AC- Why did Silent Records go on hold?
KC- At that point I was becoming discouraged with the music scene in general, and at that time not many DJs were playing Industrial music. There was like a dip, I don't know what was happening, but college radio was changing. It was going through a little period of change and growth at that point so I think a lot of the DJs that were playing this kind of music were either graduating or getting kicked off the staff to be replaced by specialty things like World Music, or Women's Music, stuff like that. Then all of a sudden there was sort of a resurgence. I think with the popularity of Wax Trax fans and stuff like that a lot of Industrial music sort of rode in on the coat-tails of that genre.

AC- PGR was the first group that you were involved in?
KC- In San Francisco, yeah. Well, I mean it's the first real project I was involved in.

AC- How did that develop?
KC- I was working on a project called Language Lab which was sort of an improvised electronic ensemble and one of the members and myself split off from that group and formed PGR.

AC- How long has PGR been around?
KC- I think we started it in the spring of '84.

AC- Has PGR been successful?
KC- Yeah.

AC- What are some of the things that Silent Records offers to the public?
KC- Well, we offer records and CDs to our customers, that's one thing. It started out primarily as a label, so we were releasing records at that time. From that point on we discovered we couldn't make enough to keep things floating with just being a label. Because in that situation you're basically selling on a 90 day consignment to distributors, who usually take 120 or more to pay. So you're always reliant on that 90 to 120 day cash cycle and you can't do that. You need a steady income. So that was another reason why I decided to put Silent Records to rest for about a year. I needed to regroup as far as our strategy, so after that the first thing we did to diversify our cash flow was to start a mail order operation. Which as it turned out proved to be very successful. We're getting anywhere from five to ten percent response from our catalog mailings which was phenomenal. And at the suggestion of my lawyer I started a distribution arm in 1991. In January we officially started "Silent Distribution." So that's some of the things we offer to our customers. Our customers are pretty much either distributors, flesh and blood, or retail stores.

AC- Most of the types or kinds of music that Silent Records carries could be categorized as-
KC- It depends. In our catalog we cover everything from Grindcore to Musique Concrete to Ambient to... I mean everything that has become a hybrid of some sort out of the Industrial culture, we carry. Even Grindcore has roots in the Industrial culture.

AC- When Silent Records began, what were the types of music that were available to you then compared to now?
KC- Well, when we started Silent Records we didn't do a lot of distribution. We were concentrating on our own releases at that point. It wasn't until I fired the company back up that we even considered handling other records, by other artists. In the beginning it was strictly just finding artists to release records by. As we progressed we got into distributing other people's stuff, so we did our own stuff less. I mean the frequency became less. It was like we put out a record and it was successful so we said, "Why not start a record company?" We started a record company and then we found we couldn't really make it float, depending on the distributors to pay who were famous for not paying. We had to be inventive with other ways to make the business work.

AC- The first band that you put out, The Haters, were you involved in that personally?
KC- No, that was... at the time I was on tour in Colorado. We were playing the Erotic Arts Festival in Denver and I met The Haters. We just became friendly and everything. He had some music that he wanted to put on record and I said let's do it. That's pretty much how it came about. That's really how it started in the beginning. There were no contracts. It was very loose. I think that when you start dealing with people like who we're dealing with now like Controlled Bleeding, or Legendary Pink Dots... these people are selling records in the upwards of you know, five K or so. You have to do things a bit more professionally and as you get further into a business you discover that you can't just keep doing business the same way or else you stay at a certain level. So we discovered that we had to offer contracts to people and become more professional.

AC- Who are some of the people you've offered contracts to recently?
KC- Well, I'm not at liberty to discuss projects that are coming up. Two people that may be recording something, or releasing something on Silent might be Controlled Bleeding and Legendary Pink Dots. That would be great, but that's not firmed up.

AC- Besides The Hafler Trio, what other groups have you released on Silent in the past?
KC- The Haters, Architect's Office, Organum, PGR, and Thessalonians.

AC- What are some of the things that has made Silent Records a success?
KC- I think the first thing that helps in making any operation successful is just your professionalism, and that encompasses a lot of different areas. I think number one having a lawyer, having an accountant, takes some of the burden off of me and it also hands that area of things over to people who have expertise in it. So I think it's very important with people who start businesses is that they have to learn to accept their own shortcomings and to delegate things to people who have talents in specific areas. That's one thing. I think our sales force now is really instrumental in punching up the cash flow for us right now. We have three salesmen now who work five days a week doing nothing but calling retail stores. Our MCI bill is getting heavier and heavier every month.

AC- Because you are focusing more on the business aspect of Silent Records, do you think it's dampening-
KC- I know what you're saying, yes and no. I've been tossing that around lately and feeling like... you have to be careful... that's a good question. It's very easy to get sucked into the whole business side of things because it can be all-consuming. You have to be very careful to keep your priorities straight. The focus is the music, it isn't running a business. That's sort of a by-product of your goal. You have to be able to run a business in order to achieve that goal. So it's like anything else. If you want to drive a nail, you have to use a hammer. In order to put out a record, you need to have business operations put in place in order to get that task done efficiently. The business end of it becomes a tool. You have to learn how to use those tools well in order to be successful, to hammer the nail so it's flush and it's not all crooked. I mean you have to learn how to do things.

AC- It could also be a double-edged sword. A hindrance.
KC- It can be, and that's the down side of running a business is that it can be all-consuming. It takes a lot of work, a lot of vision, it takes a lot of patience. People get caught in wanting things NOW. They want everything instantaneously and the other thing that people get caught in is greed. I think that's why a lot of distributors (NMDS, Rough Trade) that have fallen in the past few years have fallen into the trap of greed.

AC- Trying to make even more money off the whole deal-
KC- Well, it's weird. It's kind of like these distributors got caught behind or between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand they are accepting stuff, goods from bands and artists on consignment which means they don't pay for material up front. They say, "We'll pay you in 60 to 90 days." They turn around and they give this same material to stores and they give these stores terms. They say "You can pay US in 60 to 90 days." Well, it's a pyramid scheme and what happens is when they start getting cash in it never goes to the artists. That's a major complaint, right? So what it starts doing is accumulating in their little pool and then they start doing projects, or paying... they all of a sudden start finding all of this money that's pooled up and they go, "Oh wow. Wouldn't it be great to have a Macintosh? That would make things a lot easier, and jeez, you know that beat-up Volkswagen of mine... I don't know." And, "We should hire somebody to do this. I can't stand having to drag the mail to the post office every day." So the money that's coming in is now being pissed out in expenses. What we have done (we picked this up from someone else), we don't offer stores terms. I mean that's the most dangerous thing you can start doing. Unless you are dealing with chains who are going to be around, but the independent Mom and Pop's, they open and close quicker than bands come and go. So you really have to be careful. We have a cash up-front policy with 100% return. So if something is not selling or it's you know, hanging out on the shelf or whatever, they don't want it anymore they are free to return it and we'll refund their money.

AC- Is that sort of a deal hard to work out with retail stores?
KC- With some stores it is, because they don't want to pay for anything up-front. They want to be able to sell it on their end first, get the cash and meet their bills at the end of the month.

AC- Is that the norm of the industry?
KC- It used to be. I think it's changing. I think more independent distributors are finding that depending on what their niche is, they can demand cash up-front. So stores really have to budget for that in advance, rather than paying things at the end of the month. They form a budget for a particular type of music whether it be Reggae or Women's Music, or Industrial, and they say, "Okay I'm going to allot myself $200 this month to pay for that section of my store." Then they go ahead and place an order with a distributor who specializes in that music and they make their payment.

AC- Are there many retail stores in San Francisco that go "Oh, it's Silent Records. Yeah sure, we'll take the stuff." Automatically?
KC- I don't know about a lot in San Francisco, I know that there are a few like Amoeba in the east bay and Auricular Records in S.F. people like that who-

AC- Just trust your judgment.
KC- Right. And we do have accounts across the U.S. like Zed Records in Long Beach and Rhino in L.A., Wax Trax in Chicago. We have some big accounts that say, "Send us whatever." That's sort of an exaggeration. I mean they do look over lists that we send them but there are actually one or two stores that just say, "We don't know a lot about this music. Pick out ten albums that you think would sell well in my store." So we do that on occasion.

AC- Getting back to the early years of Silent, how did you get involved with groups like Architect's Office etc.?
KC- Well, again we were traveling in Colorado we met up with Joel from Architect's Office and The Haters, and Kelly from Human Head Transplant-

AC- So this was all part of the Erotic Arts Festival?
KC- Yeah. There was actually two or three gigs that surrounded the Erotic Arts Festival. So it was like a little pow-wow of the Industrial crowd. Tribes that were meeting. Very strange because at that time (this was 1986), the Crowley thing was really peaking so there was a very heavy emphasis on Crowley/Psychic Youth kinda stuff. It was very interesting to be in a small community that you would never have guessed existed with people who are like way into Genesis P. Orridge and the whole Psychic Youth thing.

AC- How was the Industrial scene evolving from that point, in the early years?
KC- It was very odd. I moved here (San Francisco) from New York in '83 and I knew nothing about Industrial music at that point. At that time I was playing free music, like improvised music with people like Leslie Delaba, you know, people who were associated loosely with the whole downtown improv scene. So when I moved out here... my background is also in electronic music, I've been to school and all that. It's baggage but it also helped out a lot. Anyway, when I first moved out here I didn't know anything about Industrial music and I was playing with Language Lab and this guy had a little practice studio in Oakland on Telegraph I think it was. It was in a really bad neighborhood and we had to get in there late and sort of sneak in with our equipment and whatnot. Very interesting beginnings. He was remodeling his living space which was in the back. Apparently somebody had left a Re-Search magazine, you know the Industrial culture stuff, and it had fallen into water or something or the bathroom had flooded. He had put it on top of a radiator to dry it out. So we had this ballooned-up sort of book and we were reading through this weird shit like Monte Cazazza and all this bizarre stuff, Throbbing Gristle. A lot of this stuff was brand spanking new to me. I had no idea this stuff was going on. I became fascinated because it was like, "Wow, there is sort of a mixture of electronic music on a grassroots level that's mixing with a punk aesthetic." That whole thing intrigued me because I was so sick of the pseudo-academic stuff that was going on.

AC- Electronic music was being dominated by all of it.
KC- Exactly. Unless you had a studio in a university or something, it was very hard to create and market this kind of stuff unless other university professors were buying it.

AC- Did you ever meet up with some of the early Industrialists like Monte Cazazza?
KC- Yeah. I know Monte Cazazza. I've met Mark Pauline a few times, and at that point it was very strange. The community was so small and things were happening on a real grassroots level that you just knew a lot of people.

AC- As opposed to now-
KC- Well, Monte just signed to Mute Records. I mean they're reissuing a lot of the back catalog stuff by SPK, NON, Monte Cazazza, The Hafler Trio. Mute's very smart. I think they're paving the way in making stuff easier for a lot of independents right now. But in the very beginning the scene was very small. It was based in lofts and performance spaces. That was about it. You could tell there were people who were involved in it, and you know who they were. You had people like Chris Force and the whole 455 space.

AC- I've been hearing a lot about the 455 lately. What was it, just a venue?
KC- Yeah. Not real early. I think it started about '87 or so. At that time the A.T.A. gallery had burned down and they hadn't really found a new place yet. Some kids who were very much involved with bands like... oh God, what was the name of their... I can't remember the name of their little project, but basically it was formed very loosely around the whole Crowley thing once again, Psychic Youth and that kind of stuff. So these kids found this space on 10th St. and they just rented it. It was like $750 a month or something and they had a place upstairs that they could all live in and the downstairs was a performance area. So when the A.T.A. space went down I was doing a series of concerts at the A.T.A. gallery called "Noise Knocked" and it was basically a monthly series that was dedicated to Industrial culture, or noise, or whatever you want to call it.

AC- Were there a lot of bands involved in that project?
KC- Oh yeah. Every month it was a new band, or a bunch of bands. When the A.T.A. burned down I had no place to put them on, so I transferred it all over to the 455 space, and held about 2 or 3 there.

AC- So you were acting as a promoter back then?
KC- Yeah.

AC- Which eventually led into a record label.
KC- I think I was doing it about the same time as the promotion stuff. The promotional thing I was losing money on. At that time my financial status changed because I went from working full time to working part time, so I couldn't absorb the costs anymore.

AC- What is your knowledge of Musique Concrete?
KC- Musique Concrete was a term coined by French composers Pierre Henry and Pierre Schaeffer. They both sort of helped coin this term back in the days when tape was a new medium. This was post World War II. When reel to reel tape came along they found they could manipulate sounds by basically editing. So it became like almost editing a movie. Except that you were editing sound. So now they had a malleable medium, they were able to reverse sounds, they were able to actually physically stretch the tapes sometimes and cut off parts of sounds and mix sounds and perform an audio montage type thing.

AC- Similar to what is going on with video right now.
KC- Right. I think that the whole thing with video has been happening very slowly over the past 20 years. A lot of the new American filmmakers like Stan Brackidge and Kenneth Anger and people like that were very instrumental in paving the way for a lot of the current video. You know, hand held stuff and using different textures in the backgrounds, collage type stuff. I mean there has always been that Avant-garde underground that's been sucked up by mass media, and the same thing happened with Musique Concrete, and Rap, and stuff like that where it (mass media) said, "Oh that's very interesting. We can USE that." With samplers it was the perfect medium. You didn't have to cut anything. You'd just sample and it was a lot easier. So the immediacy of stealing was very-

AC- (Laughs)
KC- Well, yeah. Before I get myself too deep...

AC- How do you think Musique Concrete relates to the Industrial music of today?
KC- The progression there I think... you have to remember that all through this period Cage was still working and professing that sounds around him were music, and that there was no reason to separate pitched, melodic based quote-un-quote sounds music. There was no reason to separate that from the sounds we hear outside everyday. So, he was very helpful in creating the groundwork that a lot of this stuff took place in. When Musique Concrete happened in the 1950s, there were other fusions happening at that time too. They progressed in universities up to a certain point, and then all of a sudden when rock and roll started, there was another hybrid. You can go back and find, I think it was Pierre Henry that did a rock opera with Spooky Tooth. There was some very bizarre collaborations back then. Of course you had Frank Zappa and you had groups like Pink Floyd. Then Germany spawned a whole group of bizarres, Tangerine Dream, Ashra Temple, Guru Guru, all of these bands that had taken the ideas of Stockhausen and Cage and just sort of co-opted them and used them in their own music. So that's where rock and popular cultures started borrowing from the academic world and the mixture caught on. And the 1960s of course were well-steeped in all kinds of psycho active drugs and enhanced that experience. Then the imagination was fuelled and it got crazy. The whole psychedelic movement. You can listen to early Pink Floyd or Jefferson Airplane or the Grateful Dead, and they all used those things on their records. Using sounds and strange instruments. Phil Lesh of the Dead was an avant-garde composer. He had written pieces for three orchestras playing simultaneously. He did a very underground kind of cult record called "Sea Stones." I can't remember the other composer he worked with, but that was like all electronic music. George Harrison recorded an album of all electronic music. What you really need to do is pick up a book about electronic music and just sit in awe of people who were doing things back in the 1920s and 30s.

AC- I remember reading about a Musique Concrete artist that lined the entire inside ceiling of an auditorium with 500 speakers and composed a piece of work just for the auditorium.
KC- That was Iannis Xenakis, and it was in Brussels. The speakers were all kind of... the piece had been recorded, all the different channels were being fed to different parts of the room to different speakers. So you'd have these cluster movements of sound going from one end of the room to the other, just based on his mathematical plotting of density. They sweated it real hard to try to get that stuff to work with the technology that was available back then.

AC- I've heard rumors about a group of Musique Concrete artists in Russia that existed back in the 1920s and 30s, before the French school of the 1950s.
KC- They had wire recorders, and they also recorded onto optical film. So there were some composers who were working with wire, which was difficult because you could only get so accurate with wire. And with optical it was similar, you had to visually kind of edit. You couldn't really run it at speed through the projector. They developed their techniques on how to cut and paste sounds.

AC- Did any of that stuff survive and get onto stable recorded media?
KC- Some stuff has survived. I'm not real sure out of a lot of different composers whose work has survived. It's hard to say. I don't know where it would be, or if it's reissued or what have you. Some of the Dada and Futurist stuff has survived and has been re-released. As far as the wire and optical stuff, it's hard to say.

AC- Do you carry any of this original Musique Concrete on Silent?
KC- No.

AC- Some of the material you have is neo-Musique Concrete though?
KC- Pretty much so. We're only interested right now in stuff that touches on the Industrial culture. The stuff that is earlier is more academic and I think that unfortunately-

AC- What do you mean when you say it was "Academic?"
KC- Academic meaning that it was all based in universities and that kind of thing. Where there were university professors or it was attatched to a university. That's where a lot of this music came out of, was the whole academic world. It was not pop culture like what we have today. That kind of thing did not exist back then. If it was experimental or ground breaking it usually emanated from universities or centers of learning.

AC- Like with art. That's why it is always referred to as a "school."
KC- Exactly. What helped that in Europe though was that they teamed up with the state run radio stations. So that's where a lot of these schools quote-un-quote had formed. Kind of a hybrid of state operated radio stations and institutions of higher learning. People who were eager to start an electronic music studio often had to go to a place that was technically equipped, which at that time was only radio stations. That's why the ROTF in France was where Schaeffer and Henry were based.

AC- And thus began college radio (Laughs).
KC- Probably.

AC- Do your personal music tastes differ from what Silent Records carries, or is it one and the same?
KC- It's one in the same. I think that mostly... I have a lot of different interests as far as music goes. I like Classical, Rap, House Music, Jazz, I like a lot of different types of music. But it's not the field I have an expertise in. Since my background is in electronic music, which lended itself very nicely to the aesthetics involved in Industrial music, and I've been involved with this music for close to 20 years now. It's like my field of expertise.

AC- Are you solely responsible for what Silent Records decides to carry?
KC- I'm the president. I pretty much navigate the label as far as where we go. Then we have a staff of people who help in business and bookkeeping.

AC- Do you have people working in the field as scouts, to bring bands to your attention?
KC- No, I don't need people to do that (laughs). The bands present themselves quite nicely. I get tons of demo tapes. I think that at this point I pretty much know who we want to get on the label. Unknown bands don't sell a lot of records, unfortunately. You have to be careful about what you release.

AC- That's too bad.
KC- It is and it isn't. If a band has a certain kind of sound that you know is going to catch on, like there's a group from Australia that we might be doing a CD with called The Pelican Daughters. Nobody in the States has heard of them, but I really like them and I think they would be very popular here. Occasionally there are bands who are unknowns that we'll take a risk on, but it's dangerous. We took a risk on Architect's Office and we're still sitting around with 200 records or so. It took a long time to sell those 800 records. That's why we're trying to go with more visible projects, and create a contact sensitive image or identity to the public so that at a certain point whatever comes out on Silent Records will have that air about it. It's like Wax Trax. You know, a new band comes out on Wax Trax it's like, "Oh, wow! It's got to be good." It takes a while to build up that aura. So that whatever we release people go, "That must be interesting. Let's buy it, it's on Silent Records."

AC- Is that one of Silent Records' primary goals right now?
KC- I think in a way it is. That's not a forefront goal. It's just something that we are trying to develop along the way. You can't force something like that to happen, you have to day by day keep presenting yourself to the public as people who are interested in interesting things and when it gets drilled in and you create a context like that, then whatever comes out on the label will be considered interesting despite virtue of being associated with it. The goals we have now are more mechanical goals. Expanding our office, painting the walls, where the money is going to come from for the extra desks, really boring kinda mundane stuff like that.

AC- How did you come up with the name "Silent Records"?
KC- Well, the first record that PGR put out was called "Silence" and that was sort of an homage to John Cage. So the entire company is sort of an homage to John Cage (laughs), in a way. I also thought it was very Zen-like at that point. Plus, at that time the British harsh power electronics like Whitehouse, was very popular. The people I was hanging around with back then were very into that. So, it's sort of a contrast to that. I wanted to do something not noise, not Industrial, and I wanted it to be Silent. People always ask me this stupid thing, I go into a bank and they go "How do you make Silent Records?"

AC- (Laughs)
KC- So it's something that people will remember. I was at a wedding recently, and I was talking with a person, you know, just as you do at weddings and they don't know anything. They're just normal everyday suburban people and he asked me what I did and everything and I said, "I operate a record company", and he goes, "Oh, that's great. What's the name of it?" "It's Silent." I was standing in a group of about four people, and he went "Hmmmm. That's interesting." So maybe he won't forget.

AC- So the naming of the company was eluding to things you were specifically interested in doing?
KC- In a way, I didn't want to be pegged as Industrial. I really hated that at first because the first, actually second grouping of PGR was very Industrial in it's sound. At that time I was working with a guy who was very much into Throbbing Gristle, Whitehouse, and stuff like that. I found very quickly that a lot of the music that was happening was based in... it seemed like it was too easy. It seemed like if you had a short wave radio and 12 delays and some autopsy photos, you could put out a cassette. I became very anti-Industrial for a brief amount of time. Only because it seemed that there were so many people doing cassettes, and so many people were just working in their bedrooms turning out this swill that was just horrible. It wasn't imaginative, it was just-

AC- Do you feel it was becoming stagnant?
KC- Very much so. Oh God, very much so. I mean the whole cassette networking thing just grew geometrically to a point... I have four milk crates of cassettes that are basically demo tapes of people. It just got to a point where I just threw them in the box. I couldn't even listen to them.

AC- Has Industrial music finally come out of that stagnant period?
KC- It has, and it's changed a lot. I mean from when I first started working in it to now. Controlled Bleeding, whose a colleague of mine is now signing with a major label. It's very bizarre. I mean I would've never guessed that when I first heard Controlled Bleeding. But I'm happy for them and I think it's really great. I think the thing that was really instrumental in a lot of bands proving their seriousness was the few artists that broke away from cassette media, and I think that was very important. That was something that my colleague who was working with me in the very beginning... I can thank him a million times for this. He says, "No more cassettes. Let's put out an LP. We have to prove how serious we are." I kept thinking, well why? Cassettes are okay. We're having fun, right? He was like, "No. That's bullshit. Let's put out a record." So we did, and it was like night and day. The kind of acceptance that we had because we were on vinyl was just amazing. But again I think that really helped push the movement forward. And then when CDs came along it was just one step further. The people who were very serious, who took their work seriously, they weren't going to release anything on CD unless they made sure it was their best work and that a lot of effort and thought went into the packaging. So that really separated the wheat from the chaff very early on. And it became an industry. That was the other thing. It stopped being networking only. It started to be people's livelihood. Look at Genesis P. Orridge. Look at Graeme Revell. These people went on to make some money at it.

AC- Where do you see Industrial music progressing to now?
KC- A million different ways. I think as in any genre you're going to have little offshoots and inner distinct sounds that happen. I think unfortunately the big push with Industrial has been the whole Nettwerk/Wax Trax thing. So anytime I talk to somebody who is sort of new in this whole scene I say, "Well, we deal with Industrial music." And they go, "Oh. You mean like Skinny Puppy." It's interesting how people have co-opted the term Industrial to mean Industrial-dance. So Industrial music right now has a lot of different inner hybrids. Like there's ambient-Industrial, there's a new thing coming up called ethno-Industrial, like Muslimgauze. Where's it all going? I have no idea. There's a million little schools. You have the European Industrial... and they're not even calling themselves Industrial anymore. Unfortunately, it's just a name we've been stuck with. I hated it for a while and then I just said, "Get used to it." If that's what we are, that's what we are.

AC- I would like to know how you got involved with The Hafler Trio.
KC- Well, I was writing to Andrew Mackenzie about a year and a half ago and I was asking him if he would be interested in doing a project for Silent at some point. We just stayed in correspondence. At that point he was involved in some other projects and he said "Well it depends. Make me an offer." I really didn't know what to offer him. We just stayed in contact loosely. When he came to the States I met with him here and at that point what happened was, "Kill The King" was something that was going to be released on a label in Sweden but the label folded. Went bankrupt, which wasn't a good omen at all. We decided to ignore that. He was shopping this around to various labels in the States. So I said that we'd be interested in doing it, and I needed to get some sort of an idea of what it would take to buy out the Swedish company from this project (not to buy the Swedish company). He basically said that there was printing in Amsterdam that needed to be paid for, and there was a master residing in a pressing plant in Germany. At that point I found the project to be way expensive. It was going to cost us about $7 per just to get into this. Staalplaat became interested in the project and we worked everything out between the three of us. It was a co-release between Silent and Staalplaat. So, Mackenzie and I were in constant contact with one another via fax. We are working on some future projects.

AC- The history behind The Hafler Trio seems somewhat cloudy. Are you familiar with it?
KC- My memory of it is that it started about 1984 with Chris Watson, who was an ex-member of Cabaret Voltaire. Well, Andrew and Chris have had sort of a falling out and it's gotten to a legal stage at this point. Anyway, I don't know what the outcome of it will be, but it's common with people who have worked as partners. It's like a bad marriage. You get a divorce. So Chris went on his way, but Andrew continued with The Hafler Trio and released stuff that he basically authored. Through the years they grew from a little project that was just doing stuff on compilations on some of the more well known Industrial labels throughout Europe and continued to put out albums occasionally when they could. They have actually been very prolific. He's got a good amount of material out there.

AC- There was an article in the last issue of Ipso Facto that stated there was an earlier stage of The Hafler Trio that had some scientists working as members in the group.
KC- It was kind of a way of dealing with media manipulation. Andrew created this whole mythology based around the scientist Robert Spridgeon. It's all B.S. pretty much. But it was amazing how many people believed this for years, you know. I mean I even believed it when it first started coming out. In my own research I looked for something by Robert Spridgeon because I like to frequent used book stores. Wherever I am, I go into used book stores. I've looked for stuff for years by Robert Spridgeon. I mean I've cross-indexed, I've looked in bibliographies, I have done extensive research on anything by Robert Spridgeon, until I started to realize that this was all a bunch of crap. So it dawned on me that there was no Robert Spridgeon, there was no Edward Moolenbeak, none of these people existed. Andrew's the kind of guy... Andrew loves to play with people's heads. That's what I love about him. He'll present this information and then you'll find out later that it's the very opposite of what it seems. And he does that with his music too. I think it's very interesting.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #2. January, 1993. For more information about Silent Records artists and releases please visit http://www.silentrecords.net/

More Operation Ivy

2006-06-11T13:02:00.000-07:00

Operation Ivy

2006-06-10T10:16:00.000-07:00

Operation Ivy performing live at The River Theater in Guerneville, Ca. I don't remember the exact year I shot these. An interview with the band was on my to-do list, but I never got around to contacting them. As a result the photos remained unused. This is the first time they have been published anywhere. If you're a fan of Operation Ivy I'm sure you'll dig these pics. More from this series tomorrow...

Rikk Agnew

2006-06-09T00:08:00.000-07:00

With a crushing, grungy and distinct guitar playing style all his own, Rikk Agnew has carved his name into a living legend status. During the punk movement of the late 1970's, Rikk became involved with acts like D.I., and the Adolescents, and in the early 80's he brought his unique style of guitar playing to groups like Christian Death. After falling in and out of many different acts, Rikk went to work on his solo career which has produced three albums. Not too long ago I had the opportunity to talk with Rikk and find out what it was like to be in so many different bands, and the trials and tribulations of running his new solo act, Yardsale.

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AC- Please tell us about your past, the bands you have been involved with over the years, and some of the projects you have worked on leading up to your solo career.
RA- I've been listening to music since I was bom. My older sister weaned me on The Four Seasons, Mercy Beat, surf music, and Motown. Music has always been an integral part part of my life, happiness, and sanity. I've been involved with a slough of bands/projects since my first cover band "RMS" in 1974. We did Led Zepplin, Deep Purple, and Bowie covers. I played bass with Social Distortion for a few months along with Casey Royer on drums, Mike Ness on guitar, and a six foot nine psychotic singer. In 1978, The Detours was the first band I was in that did original material. We dressed like those Mormons you see riding through neighborhoods on ten speed bicycles. As soon as we started to play it was like, blam! We'd start thrashing our guts out and our singer Gordon took running leaps into the crowd parting them like the fucking Red Sea. I did a three week stint with the Flesheaters. Fielding on drums for T.S.O.L. on the last leg of their first U.S. tour in 1981 when Todd broke his hand. I've always involved myself with the production, as well as producing and co-producing my own bands and projects. I've also produced other bands. I've always wanted to eventually do solo work because I like to have control over every aspect of the music- having the songs written, played, and recorded as I hear them in my head. After I left the Adolescents (due to business and artistic conflicts I guess you could say), I was asked by many bands to join them. Some of those bands were; Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, Black Flag, and 45 Grave. I didn't really want to join with any of them because like I said, I like having control over the material. That's probably why I get kicked out of some of these bands. I end up liking to have control over how the music sounds, and basically how things go with the group. I have my own ideas and I don't like to play into anybody else's ideas.

AC- Are there any other bands or projects you have worked on?
RA- God, there's about a billion of them. Have you got a couple of days? (laughs) I've been in all kinds of bands. I was in a band called Naughty Women a long time ago. They were probably the very first glam transvestite radical noisy New York Dolls influenced band, playing since '78 or so doing this, and getting their asses kicked alot. That band has probably had more than fifty or sixty members in it all together. It had a revolving door and has included everybody from myself to Izzy from Guns 'N Roses who played drums for a while before going on to his found fame and fortune. God, you name it. There's been all kinds of freaks in that band. I've done a lot of other little bands. I shouldn't say little, but you know. They didn't last very long. The omelets, The Farm. Small projects. One or two take kinda things. Sometime during my cover band career before I discovered punk rock, I played in a mariachi band. We did mariachi, 50's covers, we played a lot of 16th birthday parties for Mexican families, Mexican weddings, and in really pretty fucked up parts of town. The people were always great though, and I ended up getting along with and meeting with a bunch of the gang members out in that area- in Santa Ana and all. They were really nice guys. I can't understand why they gotta be so violent.

AC- When did you first pick up and play a guitar?
RA- When I was five I started pluckin' out one note tunes on my dad's acoustic guitar. He did the same and that's about as far as his musical talent went. I lost interest in music until I was in high school, and a friend of mine, Mark, was starting a band and he needed a bass player. He showed me my first real song, chords and stuff on guitar. It was "Lay Lady Lay" by Bob Dylan. From there I just listened to my record collection and learned all the riffs I could by figuring it out.

AC- What were some of your guitar playing influences?
RA- My main influences on guitar have been Tony from Black Sabbath to Rick Nelson from Cheap Trick to the two king Jimis- Page and Hendrix. As far as writing, I would have to say The Buzzcocks and The Mechanics. The Mechanics were a local band from the late 70's who were way ahead of their time. They were too punk for rock and too rock for punk. They were doing this stuff, say, 77 to 79. If they'd been out now they would be real heavy. Back then nobody could identify with them. Their leader and main songwriter Tim is probably the biggest influence upon my writing. I'm also inspired on another level by what I call "textural" players like The Edge from U2, Tim from Flipper, Keith Levene from P.I.L., Dave from Jane's Addiction, and most of the guitar work from Siouxsie And The Banshees. It comes from everywhere basically.

AC- How did you become involved with Christian Death?
RA- Hmmmm, (laughs). The Devil made me do it! No, they opened for an Adolescents show in their home town of Pomona, Ca. I'd never seen anything like them before. It was like being at a funeral in a scary movie or something. These people come walking out in tuxedos and women with black veils over their faces quietly lining up roses in front of the whole stage. They played this weird, slow, scary music- this was when everybody had short hair and were trying to play music faster than they are now. Christian Death was doing slow eerie stuff with longer hair and dressed like ghoulish morticians. Soon afterward I was fired from the Adolescents, and with a need for change I thought it would be great to join with Christian Death and do a whole new thing. I was able to be real open and creative with my playing and writing instead of sticking to the bar-chord banality that I was quickly tiring of. It was interesting, frightening.

AC- What was it like being a member of Christian Death?
RA- I'd rather not go into details to be honest with you about what went on.

AC- Why did you finally leave Christian Death?
RA- I left the band because of the intensity and decadence that surrounded it.

AC- You were in D.I. for a short time. As with Christian Death, you left the band when it was still very young. Why did you leave D.I.?
RA- Well, see, I'm Mr. Temporary and I can only stay in a band for no more than three months, because if I stay in a band for more than three months I'm going to melt! No, really I left D.I. in '86. It was time to move on and do something else. Here I was doing something different with Christian Death, then I joined with D.I. and it was fun. I love that music and the energy, but I just had to do something else. Again, I felt limited as to what I could write and record. People expected a certain sound out of D.I. and I don't like to be limited. I like to be free. The band was going in a direction that I didn't really care to follow, either.

AC- What was your involvement with the Adolescents?
RA- My involvement with the Adolescents was the breaking ground of my career. The band was a volatile combination of five headstrong frontmen leader types vying for control, yet jelled for an intense power pack combo. The Adolescents could not stay together as a band for any long length of time because of the intensity of the personalities involved.

AC- Will you ever go back to working with the Adolescents, D.I., or Christian Death anytime in the future?
RA- I like to keep my hand in many cookie jars. We had just recently done a couple reunion shows with Christian Death. In fact, we did a reunion tour of the U.S. and Canada the winter of '89. That was very interesting to say the least. There is a big market for those death rock kids. We had a great time. It seemed we were the most popular in the South actually. D.I., never. I will never go back to playing with D.I. simply because they have their stuff totally together. They are a very strong continuing band. There's no reason for me to go back because they've gone the direction they wanted to go, and they're doing great.

AC- What is it like to be a solo artist compared to being a guitarist in a group?
RA- Well, I'm a guitarist and solo artist. There's not much difference. As I mentioned earlier I do very much enjoy having more control because I like to have what it sounds like in my head.... I like to have it come out this way. The advantage and disadvantage is having all the responsibility on your shoulders. Advantages are that you pretty much have the control, you pretty much direct how things go. The disadvantage is that everybody comes to you when it's time to bitch! (laughs)

AC- What have been some of your favorite moments being a solo musician?
RA- The European tour was excellent, I had a really good time there. I like working one on one with the engineer but sometimes it can be really chaotic with a whole band in the studio, especially when you're mixing or laying down tracks. Everybody's got their own opinion and it all gets mixed up, then you know, the engineer is ready to tear his hair out and stuff it down everyone's throats.

AC- How many solo releases of material do you presently have?
RA- Let's see.... I have the All By Myself which is on Frontier Records released in 1983, and on that one I played everything. I did that one in about thirty hours- no, actually forty hours in three sessions. I was working a full time job then. It was insane. I lived an hour away from the studio. I was living in Huntington Beach at the time, and the studio was in Sun Valley. So it was like go to work 8 to 4:30, drive in the traffic, get there about 6:30 and record until 5 in the morning, then head back to work. Back and forth. I did that for three days straight. By the time I was done I was exhausted. I even did this au-natural. No white drugs, no nothing. It was insane. Literally insane. I mean I didn't even drink because I never would have been able to hack. I didn't do any more solo material until this recent Triple X stuff. I released two 45's. One is "Read Between the Lines b/w Horse Bites Dog Cries." That was released last year some time, and I followed that up about three months later with another single called "Think of the Children b/w Feel for Me," which is a cut off the album. Then the album Emotional Vomit came out. I'm currently working on another album where I'm going to feature a lot of different lead vocalists from other bands. I'm not going to disclose who right now, but that should be done by this summer and should be released most likely by fall. Right now I do not have any real title for it. Actually, I do. I hate giving shit away. I don't know. They're always just expressions. It's like what my album is called. It's just spitting out how I feel.

AC- How has your music grown since your first album, All By Myself?
RA- I wouldn't say it's really grown. I'm the same old me! There's no real growing, just more music. I guess the only way I could feel that it's grown is that I've had a lot more time inbetween, a lot more aging to be influenced.

AC- How has your style of guitar playing changed over the years? What do you consider to be "gothic" or "punk" today versus the past?
RA- My guitar playing hasn't changed. I'm creating new stuff all the time. I don't really identify with labels or categorizations like gothic or punk. I know it's an easier way for people to grasp and know what your talking about when trying to describe a sound without playing a record, but to me it's all just music. So it's hard for me to make a comparison of gothic and punk present versus past. I'd say it's just like any form of music. It starts out kind of elementary and grows or matures. It starts out pure and people eventually put their own two cents in and it mutates from there.

AC- How did your new album, Emotional Vomit develop? What has the album meant to you personally?
RA- Through my esophagus and out my mouth! Blah! (laughs) No, it emerged very slowly. A lot of it came from girls. Girls playing that game..... that good old game of love. Twisting and wrenching you- just fucking with your head. Ruthlessly I must say. Putting you through an emotional Hell. So, Emotional Vomit is the throes and heartbreaks of love in life that I've gone through put to song. Rather than go strangle the bitch, rather than kill myself, rather than drown my sorrows in drug and drink (which I did for a little while) I took it out on music and expressed it that way. It's better to construct with your hurt than it is to destruct because then you're just hurting more. You know, you take the poison and turn it into medicine.

AC- What do you think some of the high and low points of Emotional Vomit are for you?
RA- Most of it has been high points. I love the way the art direction came out. The material I used I liked. Probably the low points were that I could have done better on a few of the songs. I wanted them produced a certain way..... well, not produced a certain way. I produced the record, but I wanted them to end up sounding a certain way. At times my engineer wouldn't jive with me. I didn't have enough time and enough room to really make the songs sound the way I wanted them to because of things like the budget, engineer, etc.

AC- You did a cover of a Depeche Mode song on your new LP. Do you really like Depeche Mode or was this meant as sort of a joke?
RA- I love Depeche Mode. I really do. I love all kinds of stuff. I mean I love all music. The fact that anybody makes any kind of sounds and records it or goes up on a stage and performs it..... I don't care if it's Johnny Cash to G.G. Allin, they all have a place in the musical world. They all have the right to do so. It's art. Getting back to the question, yes, I do like Depeche Mode. I don't like all of their stuff, but I do like most of it. That "Never Let Me Down Again" song..... I don't know. The first time I heard it was when I watched MTV and the video for that song came on. I thought it was the most intense, beautiful song. I thought "I have to record this." It was done in a serious spirit.

AC- How would you describe your current music?
RA- There was a lot of kids in Europe as well as here in America that would always ask me 'Well, what do you consider yourself? Heavy Metal, Hardcore, rock and roll, what? Are you hardcore, grindcore, speedcore?' I'd tell them I'm "Mycore." They go 'mycore?' Or 'Meincore' like in Germany. Hey, It's my own core. I describe my current music as my current music. I'm not into labels. I'd say I play Baskin-Robbins rock, okay?

AC- What has been most satisfying to you about your work overall?
RA- What's been most satisfying to me about my work is the people that enjoy it, and come up to compliment me on it. They tell me how happy it makes them feel or anything from 'made me feel good' to 'got me laid' to 'changed my life.' So, what's most satisfying to me is the feedback I get from fans.

AC- Has singing been difficult as well as writing and playing music simultaneously?
RA- I think what was most difficult was trying to coordinate singing and playing at the same time. A lot of times the music that I write and then the singing pattern that I write counterpoint each other in a sense.....they don't flow with each other. It was kinda hard. It was kinda like when a drummer first learns to keep beats with his hands and with his foot on the bass peddle at the same time. Also, I've run around a lot. No matter what band I'm in I run around all over the place. So I had to learn to pace myself, because I'd be running around doing a lead solo and all of a sudden I come up to the microphone and I could barely breathe out the words. Working out helped a lot (laughs).

AC- Since your work up until recently, you've been known primarily as a guitarist. Has that created problems for your new work as a singer?
RA- No, I really don't consider that to be a problem. I've always done backing vocals with all the bands I've been in besides Christian Death.

AC- What kinds of reactions have you received out of listeners concerning your new material?
RA- Everything from praise and worship to verbal shit slingin'. You know, not everybody will like everything, and not everybody's going to dislike everything. To each his own. I personally don't give a fuck what anybody thinks about my material. I create it and I record it and I play it for my own enjoyment, my own enjoyment only. Anybody else that likes it, great! Anybody that doesn't like it don't listen to it. Simple as that, right?

AC- Have you been performing live recently?
RA- I've played a couple other local joints in addition to touring. One night I was supposed to play a show at Club Lingerie. Our drummer had to play in his other band first, then play with us. Right when he was done he didn't have time to pack up his drums or anything. He had to shoot right over to Club Lingerie to play the show that we were doing. So, when he got there, the band that was supposed to lend him a drum set had split with the drums. We couldn't use any other drums set and it was really terrible. David Bowie was there to see me and with the way things worked out I was just furious. I was like "Oh no, here's my luck again." I have had a lot of bad luck in this business. I really do. A lot of things go wrong with me. About 60 to 70 percent of the time I have technical difficulties on stage, even though during sound check everything goes alright. I don't know if it's a curse or if it's just Murphy's law. It follows me all around and gets me irritated. Sometimes I feel like blowing the world apart. In the long run when I talk about it, it's pretty humorous.

AC- What will be some of your near future plans?
RA- Well, I just returned about four or five months ago from a European tour with my Yardsale, and I want to go back again. It went over really well. I'd like to do a U.S. tour too. Right now I've got to stay home for a little while because my fiancee is expecting. We're going to have a baby in about six weeks now. I want to be around to help raise my child. Then I plan on hitting the road again. I love touring, I just can't get that out of my system. I love new faces and places, and as I mentioned, I'll be working on a new album. I've got all kinds of projects going on as well. I currently play drums for a band called Three Ring Binder which consists of myself, and three bass players. We do everything from George Gershwin to Motorhead, and our own originals. We're just now starting to play a lot of the LA and Orange County clubs and search for a label to put out our very, very unique material. I also play guitar in a band called Wheel of Law. It's an experimental type band, it comes up with that texturing guitar playing that I mentioned. I use various tunings and effects. All together the band itself has a wide range and intense variety of sounds. I will continue on with the Yardsale. We just did an Adolescents reunion show, and we're going to put out a new album with the original members. I'm keeping pretty damn busy. I've started producing a couple local bands and a band in Colorado called House of Cards, and I'm open to anybody else that wants me to produce them. I'll do the killer job and make you sound like a million. You may not make a million, but you'll sound like it.

AC- Your brothers have worked with you in just about every band or project you've done. Have you tried to keep them involved in your work on an ongoing basis?
RA- Yes I have because they are in the same vein that I am when it comes to writing and playing. It's almost like we are somewhat inter-connected even though we have different ideas of what we like to do, what kinds of bands we like to be in, and the kinds of music that we like to play varies a bit. Although in the long run we're all the same. I like to have my brothers work with me because they're very easy to get along with, they're good workers and catch on super quick.We did a project on a Ramones compilation record, doing Ramones covers for Triple X. I got on there to do "Bonzo Goes to Pittsburgh" and I decided instead of doing it as Rikk Agnew, let's do it as The Agnews. The three of us had never played all together on one song before. I thought that would be a great thing to do. So we called it The Agnews and I made a tape of the song from the Ramones record and we practiced it in a bathroom in a bar (laughs). I'm not going into details but that's where we ended up rehearsing it. We listened to the tape once, and as we were listening to the tape, those guys were catching on. See, I played drums and sang on it, my brother Alfie played guitar, and my other brother Frank played bass 'cause at the time Frank had injured his finger climbing over the fence of a graveyard where him and his friends were drinking. You know those wrought-iron gates with the spikes on top? Ouch! It hurts my back just to talk about it. His finger was super damaged so he could only play bass. By the time we had played the song on the tape twice, we had it down. We went down an hour later, cut it, and it worked out really great. The last Yardsale show I did was in December '90, and that one..... well, one of my members, a guitar player Dan Coburn had to go into the hospital for a kidney operation and my drummer Chris had a lot of problems with our truck when we came back from the tour. So, it was just me and Brad Jackman the bass player. I needed a guitar player and I needed a drummer. So I thought, hey, my brothers they all play multi-instruments as I do. So I put the instruments in a little hat and they drew whatever they were going to play. Alfie ended up playing drums and Frank played guitar. That was the first time the three of us had ever played together in a band onstage at the same time. That was really neat. Even my mom was there cheering us on. She usually goes to a lot of our shows, but this one she was really proud 'cause all three of her sons were up there. She was going off headbanging- going crazy. She's a great mom, she's like 61 years old going on 18.

AC- Do you all come from a musically inclined family?
RA- No. Me and my brothers are the only ones in the family that play music. Other than that my Grandpa is probably the only person that's musical out of all my aunts, cousins, uncles, etc. He's my mom's dad- Alfonso Fernandez. He played with the Latinaires, he played on a lot of movie soundtracks during the '30s and '40s, and he also did some work with Xavier Cougat. He was supposed to go on a European tour with Xavier Cougat, but declined because he was a dedicated family man. He didn't want to leave them behind.

AC- Do you attempt to teach each other musical techniques?
RA- No, Not really. We all just pick up stuff on our own. It's almost like it just comes naturally.

AC- Have the three of you had any formal music schooling?
RA- None. None at all. We've never took a lesson in our lives. I don't even know that any of us can read music. I think we can a little bit the same way as learning to play the instruments.

AC- What do you see yourself doing 10 or 15 years from now?
RA- Dead! Either dead or being the father of a teenager pullin' my hair out. Maybe the father of a couple teenagers, I don't know. I see myself still writing and performing music. I will perform and write music until the day I die. I'll never be a manager of a band. Believe me, I've seen managers and by the time they're 30 they look like they're 80. I want to continue doing this. I'll always be putting out music. The Yardsale will go on and on and on. Maybe it will go on with my children.

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This interview originally appeared in Antocularis issue #1. August, 1992. For more information about Rikk Agnew's releases and current projects visit http://www.rikkagnew.com/

Welcome

2006-06-08T16:48:00.000-07:00

Antocularis was an underground music magazine published between 1991-1993. Originally the interviews contained in Antocularis' issues were intended for other publications that either failed or changed their content focus. Frustrated with trying to freelance the material out to other magazines I started my own project. Each issue of Antocularis took a year or so to put together and publish. With a staff of only myself trying to write articles, conduct interviews, and do all the graphic design it was a tough full time job. Unfortunately after the third issue of Antocularis came out in 1993 I decided to kill the magazine. I became burned out as well as financially drained. It was time to lay the project to rest and move on to other things.

Over the years I kept a few remaining issues safely tucked away like a little time capsule buried deep in my filing cabinet. While my skills back then as a young writer weren't very good and the interviews I conducted could have been better, there's still some pretty cool stuff stashed in those pages. Because these articles never really got the attention they deserved I thought it might be fun to republish them here. For the most part nobody has ever really seen them before. I also would like to share many photographs of bands that I never published anywhere, even in Antocularis. In those cases I had gone out to live shows armed with a press pass and multiple cameras to take shots of groups. The intention was to contact them later on and use those photos in the interviews. For whatever reason, sometimes I never pursued asking for interviews with bands even after I had plenty of pictures to use.

Music has always been a big part of my life. Collecting rare records and researching underground or obscure genres of music consumed a large amount of my time from my high school years to my early 20s. I was particularly fascinated with Industrial Music and culture through the late 1980s. Never hearing anything quite like it before I began searching for more information on where Industrial Music came from and what caused a small but motivated group of people to make it. Everything sort of snowballed from there. I got jobs working for a few zines and managed to freelance a couple of articles out. Encouraged by this I then went to work on other collaborative magazine projects. The scope of my interests broadened to a wider spectrum and I began seeking interviews with music groups from many different genres.

During those years the internet wasn't widely available. Interviews had to be conducted either over the phone or by mail. Over the phone interviews were straightforward to record and generally resulted in more elaboration from those being interviewed. The downside however was that the interview had to be transcribed by hand from audio tape, and then re-written from notes to a computer. This was extremely time consuming. Interviews by mail were much easier to dump into a word processor but there would be weeks or months that went by while lists of questions were sent out and written responses returned. They also usually weren't as detailed or elaborate with answers to interview questions.

With that said, over the coming weeks I will post the bulk of Antocularis articles, unpublished photos, music reviews, and a few stories about what it was like working on this project. To those of you who wander in by accident or stumble across this, I hope you find some of it interesting and entertaining. Enjoy the read.